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Mr T

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Posts posted by Mr T


  1. Regarding the 1926 with "pattern" reverse. It seems to be a hybrid of Freeman reverses B and C. It has the slightly larger figure of Britannia as on reverse B but has the border teeth of reverse C which are slightly longer and fewer in number (184 as opposed to 187 on reverse C. I assume that it's an interim stage of development of reverse C. It was sold at London Coin Auction in March 2009 as part of the Roland Harris collection (as a 1926 M.E.)

    What coin did you count 187 rim denticles on? I've counted the rim denticles on a couple of Freeman C/Gouby d pennies and get 184.


  2. Mr T, I think you are right about your last two examples, but "all" reference books refer to the F192A, as the 1922, with 1927 Reverse. The F192A is very rare. but the other (last) two examples you mention are almost unobtainable. I think the F192B might be the "Specimen" 1922/27. (not sure though, as I have never seen one, unless the recent Heritage auction example was one.) :)

    Yes I agree - in any case Freeman 192B is an intriguing piece as the only known example seems to have seen a bit of use. I don't suppose anyone knows the circumstances in which it was found?

    Was the Heritage coin you mention posted about here?


  3. I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with you Rash, all the normal markers are pointing to it being one. What can you see we can't? Londoncoins seem to think it's one too and it wouldn't be good for them to be selling this for ££££ if it's not legit.

    As jelida said, it's the proto-1927 reverse, not the real 1927 reverse (Freeman didn't distinguish between the two).

    The four different 1922-dated pennies are:

    Freeman 192: 3+B/Gouby C+b

    Freeman 192A: 3+C/Gouby C+c

    Freeman -: 3+C/Gouby C+d (the proofs for the 1924 proof sets)

    Freeman 192B: 4+C/Gouby D+d (the one secret santa is referring to, first mentioned at http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/9753-1922-penny-with-1927-reverse-confirmation/?p=125335)

    I hope I got that all correct!


  4. Mr T,

    Thank you for your input so far.

    Please would you share your observations on the precise difference comparisons of I in BRITT and alignment of Colon Dots after BRITT. on obverse 11 and 12.

    I believe that Most if not all Freeman 322's 12+L have a wonkey I in BRITT.

    I look at halfpennies of said obverse 11 and 12 until I'm blue in the face, but can't find a significant difference identifier.

    I don't have my copy of Freeman available at the moment so I might have things the wrong way around but it looked to me like the I in BRITT on obverse 11 is just to the right of a denticle while it is firmly between denticles on obverse 12, and the : on obverse 11 points between denticles while it points at a denticle on obverse 12.

    Hi Mr T, just looking at reverse J, it seems to always indicate "H" fir Heaton mint. Mine has no "H" and no sign of I ever being there. Am trying to get my head around it at the moment. Help

    Thanks Brian

    Not sure - it looks like there's a mark where the H should be in your photo. All the same, the Royal Mint would have tried new dies before sending them to Heaton, unless this reverse die was first used in an earlier year.


  5. Conversely do you tell a seller when they have a common coin they are trying to sell as a variety. There's a dealer on at the moment trying to sell a Goulby X which obviously isn't and he has dropped the price thinking it will shift. Mind you he could just be being dishonest.

    Never done it but I've seen others post their experiences when they try and more often than not they get fairly rude responses.

    I do remember someone on another forum saying they'd told a seller they had incorrectly described something and the seller did take the coin down but basically said, I'll take you on your word but if you're lying then bad luck to you.


  6. As others have said, I'd only let the seller know if I knew them, otherwise it's seller beware. It's tough but if the seller hasn't done their research and hasn't shown due diligence then it's not my job to do it for them.

    Also, I've had to source all of my books on British predecimal varieties from England (postage and the exchange rate don't help) and if any local sellers don't wish to go the same lengths then that's their problem.

    Also, anyone who signs up here and asks a question about any coins they have will always get an honest answer, usually within a day.


  7. The weights and measures would have been dictated by law, so the tolerances may well have been too - I believe Acts of Parliament are available online but I don't know if all Acts back to whenever the copper penny was first produced are available.

    Also, even if you find the tolerances, it would likely be an ideal case - sticking to the tolerances for silver and gold coins would have been much more important.


  8. I know of no such book that covers all of that in one (but would love to be proved wrong).

    A New History of the Royal Mint covers mint operations I think (I haven't had a good to read to see what exactly it covers though).

    There's a Royal Mint annual report from the late 1800s on Google Books but I don't think most of the records are easily available.

    For varieties there are Michael Gouby's books on pennies, Michael Freeman's book on bronze coinage, Peter Davies' book on silver coins and Michael Marsh's books on half sovereigns and sovereigns, though I think they're probably all out-dated to some degree or other. David Groom has some books on bronze and silver varieties too but they only start from 1900.


  9. I've had tape across coins before but it's always from someone who doesn't know better (doesn't sell many coins or sells coins even though they're not a collector) so I let it slide.

    I've never had it across a proof though and that would be pretty annoying.


  10. Has anyone tried counting the denticles on this coin? I got 158 for the obverse but none of the pictures I can find are good enough to see whether the reverse has 184 or 185 (the denticles on the Heritage photos at http://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/great-britain-george-v-modified-effigy-penny-1926-au-details-altered-surfaces-pcgs-/a/3042-29971.s?ic4=OtherResults-SampleItem-071515%C2'>


  11. Gouby does state that obv 2 has 143, and obv 3 has 138, so that tallies

    Where does he say this?

    I have just checked the 4 pictures of the "new" F10 that I have and all 4 have the variety of reverse D with the curved rock line to the shield (D*).

    Regarding your die combinations above, don't forget 2+B (F9 mule).

    Richard

    Right you are. I feel like there could still be some undiscovered varieties now...

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