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JLS
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Content Count
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Joined
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Last visited
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Days Won
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Posts posted by JLS
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55 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:You could perhaps try an overnight soak in balsamic vinegar to remove the verd. It'll leave a dark patch, but that is obviously better than the way it looks at present. Alternatively a several month soak in olive oil.
Feel a bit cautious regarding balsamic vinegar - would it not strip the obverse patina ?
I'm used to using olive oil but from my experience it won't totally eliminate the verdigris on a coin like this, without keeping it in so long that it changes the color of the coin.
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1 minute ago, terrysoldpennies said:yes its an F21, well done
Nice, thanks for the confirmation ! Now I just have the dilemma of whether to try to remove the gunk from the reverse or not...
@secret santa, you're welcome to add these photos to the rare pennies site if F21 makes the cut, so to speak.
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I bought this thinking it was a F18 (and probably overpaid in that case), but is this actually a F21 with the bust so close to the outer border ?
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Edward-VII-Penny-1902-Low-Tide-Variety/202980311518
A "scarce higher grade example"
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32 minutes ago, JohnConduitt said:OK great, thank you very much, I'll have a look. Yes I suppose while £1,000 for a George I copper halfpenny sounds a lot, you'd be better off forging a James II tin farthing for £3,500!
In practice I've never seen a forgery of one of those either, difficult with the corrosion and the copper plug, no-one sane would buy a unprovenanced "clean" example. I'd guess it would be much easier to make a quality forgery of e.g. an 18th century American cent or English civil war siege pieces, which in practice are issues you have to be careful with.
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If you have a look at Peck (English Copper, Tin and Bronze Coins in the British Museum) you will see weight ranges provided. Coins outside these ranges are typically treated as mint errors, and can be worth a premium, especially for William III copper.
The only reign you typically get good quality forgeries for is Anne, and most of these are either casts or electrotypes, so either look rough and porous, or have a seam/filing on the edge.
I've never seen a good quality forgery of a Charles II or George I bronze; it would be very difficult to emulate the poor quality surfaces, strike and slightly irregular blanks well, and not really worth the effort given the low prices these coins achieve in top grade - there are better targets for the forger.
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2 minutes ago, rooneydog said:Thank you - I thought it was contemporary after reading an article from BNJ
1. Contemporaneous issues. These retained the official designs and legends and bore genuine dates of issue corresponding to those of the actual coins, viz. 1787-97 and from one issuer 1798. About a dozen Birmingham firms struck and issued them, and in most cases signed them with names or initials (which were their own1 —not the bogus initials found on the 'evasion' counterfeit halfpennies and farthings made during this period). Most were of brass. To avoid confusion with the gold prototypes, some had scalloped edges or were undersized and/or made of copper.
Yes, you're right, it's part of the "first series" along with the Kettle issues etc. I don't know if it would have actually been struck in 1788 or a few years after, but it definitely is Georgian rather than Victorian.
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24 minutes ago, will1976 said:I'm assuming the buildings on the left and right are nothing to do with the work house as the token is from the late 1790's and they're not depicted on the 1812 tokens I've seen. If they where part of the enlargement surely they would of been included on the later tokens?
Not so sure about that as I've seen several "idealized" pictures of the workhouse corresponding just to the buildings on 1812 tokens from far later...by the Victorian period the complex was enormous. I may have a bit more of a research.
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47 minutes ago, rooneydog said:Just looking through stuff I put away a few years ago and came across 1788 Imitation Spade Guinea by Wilmore Alston & Co and wondered if it was rare as cannot seem to find another on the internet, do not have BHM but did find a 1/2 guinea.
Yes, this is a relatively early imitation spade guinea and fairly rare; listed by Neilson as number 2960. I wouldn't rate the value much in that grade as you do get nice ones with original gilding occasionally, but it's not an easy piece to find.
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Hello all !
Recently acquired this piece. Wondering if anyone recognizes the countermark ?
I suspect it was just a jewelry die test or something but a connection with St. Kitts could be mooted ! The countermark is pretty heavily worn which is unusual for coin jewelry in my experience...
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If there is some better material among the 2000 pieces you could see if DNW were interested (perhaps split up by geographical period etc.), the fees will take a bite but they can achieve really good results with even mediocre bulk lots in my experience.
George Jones in London normally buys bulk lots of coins of pretty much any quality for reasonable prices, although I doubt he's doing much business given COVID19, I can see if I have his business card somewhere if you want.
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This is a 19th or 20th century button from Christ's Hospital School - obverse shows king Edward VI - I can read "RD VI" on the top left.
Here's one of more recent vintage with the same design: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164038578971
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1 hour ago, will1976 said:Latest purchase......this leaves just one in the Birmingham series to find. This piece is ex Jan collection
Very nice !
Interesting to see the contemporary context of the Workhouse on the street (vs. how it's portrayed on the workhouse's own 19th century tokens) - assuming the two buildings either side of it are not part of the enlargement...
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8 minutes ago, VickySilver said:Well, the US has reported 26 million unemployed adults, and the numbers may be higher....I think this is a marker of economic pressure that will start to put negative pressure on at least the bottom to middle ground in the collector markets, including coins. This economy reminds me of a modern ship hitting a rock or hit by a torpedo - the compartments affected are completely flooded out, but containment doors hold even the compartments adjacent dry and unaffected until pressure builds and blows through a door, and then that compartment is flooded, etc.
Eventually the ship begins to list and even sink....Hopefully the economy does not go the latter.
No-one knows what the long term economic impact of COVID19 is likely to be.
I agree that the bottom of the coin market is likely to be hit, but I think this is the confirmation of a long term trend. There are fewer collectors of lower quality material, and the internet makes it hard to sell very common coins profitably (or at all !), because there's far more supply than demand.
Just compare the Spink prices for common George VI and Elizabeth II predecimal issues to the market reality...it's impossible to sell most of these pieces in unc. for more than a few pounds each in my experience.
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The thing about coins which have been "buffed" with a cloth rather than abrasively cleaned is that it's very difficult to tell that it's happened once the coin has toned down enough. And almost all coins above a certain age have had such treatment at some point unless they've come out of the ground more recently.
But the florin in question has really quite obvious hairlines in the obverse field - you have to give a coin more than a gentle rub with a cloth to get that effect. It's still an attractive piece but it's not ever going to be as nice as it was before it was cleaned.
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My guess would be that there's something else going on with the dies, a bit like the broken bead on the recessed ear pennies. Perhaps there were five subtly different dies which they numbered up accordingly, to allow them and the coins produced to be distinguished at a glance. They made a small number of coins from each (maybe double figures ?), deemed the results unsatisfactory, and for some reason the coins were added to the mint output rather than melted down.
If this was the case, I doubt it will ever be confirmed, given the poor state of the surviving examples.
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Maurice Bull's "English Silver Coinage" is also more detailed on varieties than Spink and provides rarity ratings for everything, of variable accuracy. Also covers the pattern silver coinage for Victoria in reasonable detail, if that's of any interest.
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4 hours ago, Diaconis said:👍🏽which to can sell on to some neophyte, win win.
(just kidding).
Despite being an obvious fake, it looked silver in hand surprisingly so I acid tested it and ended up selling it as scrap with a load of dateless Victorian threepences....hopefully no-one fished it out before it reached the furnace and the neophytes are safe !
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Last time I bought a fake coin by accident on eBay and the seller was un-cooperative, I just escalated through eBay and I ended up getting a full refund without even returning the fake...
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1 hour ago, Diaconis said:He really is a piece of work, isn't he?
His Alfred the Great looks like a tribute to Mick Jagger and Barbara Streisand's illegitimate love child playing at Red Indians.
Can definitely see Jagger there.
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On this topic my least favorite seller of fake coins on eBay right now is Pana_nis: sells pretty poor fakes of Anglo-Saxon coinage for enough money to actually buy an original (of a less rare type obviously):
His negative feedback is pretty funny for what it's worth, with the obscene ranting in transliterated Serbian !
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5 hours ago, Diaconis said:Obviously his idea of a discount Offa.
Looks cast to me
Straight from the United Cingdom too
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8 hours ago, 1949threepence said:Made it look as though somebody found the tin with the coins in it. Although they cover themselves nicely.
As you say, a pure scam. All junk. Yet people fall for it, such is their naivety.
There are far too many examples of sellers like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283845360507 - fake; the seller is offering all sorts of other junk lots put together as if "found". Note the description: "No Money Back No Guarantee" and a disclaimer that the coin's not guaranteed to be authentic.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133384677622 - look at the seller's other lots; classic with the fuzzy photos
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For what it's worth, I'm definitely in the younger collector bracket (mid-20s) and while I don't collect pennies by Freeman number in a box-ticking way, I like owning examples of some the scarcer die combinations, latest acquisition was a really choice 1915 recessed ear piece, and I've owned a few decent bun pennies in the past.
I do think the sort of prices paid for some of the rare varieties in very low grades are unlikely to hold up in the long term, as in my experience younger collectors tend to be less interested in rarities for the sake of rarity and more interested in purchasing really high quality pieces. Having said that, if the US market got seriously interested in the British bronze set, you'd end up with people trying to complete registry sets (sigh) so I may well be wrong about this.
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Penny Acquisition of the week
in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Posted
Thanks, Pm'd.