JLS

The seller Paul is a nice chap, bought two rare unofficial farthing style pieces off him recently, fair price and no problems. These issues are pretty rare. There were a variety of dies used for the outside rings, have a look at this one for comparison: https://www.cgbfr.com/5-centimes-lindauer-petit-module-souvenir-de-lexposition-coloniale-1930-paris-f-122-13-var-ttb,fmd_492430,a.html I'm sure CGB will have even more in their backstock if you ask them.

Yes, agreed. The price is pretty high, but it's eBay. Assuming the seller would take 60-70% of the listing price as a best offer, it seems pretty reasonable supposing the coin was a super-choice 1927 proof florin. The seller's based in the USA, and won't have had the opportunity to handle that many of these issues compared to a UK dealer or even experienced collector. Plus. the best 1927 coins I've seen have been in the original set, not sold individually. Sets tend to get broken up for profit when they are unsaleable due to problems with individual coins... Grading is all relative. There are 20th century Austrian coins I can think of where that level of hairlines etc. would still result in a really choice coin due to poor production and typical cleaning etc. I agree that it's been hairlined by cleaning, but this is often market acceptable with proof coins as long as the eye appeal is OK. The problem is that the PCGS grader seems to be totally unfamiliar with the issue, and how commonplace coins in this sort of grade are.

There's even a nick on George's ear ! I'm not sure if the hairlines are bad enough to warrant a details grade but no way is this a PR66 coin...

Tony Clayton's listing of die numbers suggests that all 1867 shillings with die number 19 + have the obverse of 1868 (which is a fairly scarce variety). I'm a bit sceptical, albeit working from a rather rubbish example with die number 19, it looks like an ordinary 1867 obverse to me with tight ringlets. What do people think ? https://imgur.com/a/LW367ri

This is my problem right now - my eBay sales are doing just fine, but it's hard to buy any decent material at wholesale prices right now. Luckily my dealing is a hobby to fund the collection rather than something I depend on for income, but it's frustrating when you put a lot of bids you feel are sensible on an auction and come away with no lots, or just one or two.

Lot 1984 in Auction 149, sold at £300 + premium back in 2015. Alright coin (EF cleaned or rubbed...) but hardly worth the AU grade or a £1k+ price.

What about this example of CGS grading ? https://www.ringramcoins.com/boe-dollar-12727.html Clearly polished in my opinion; also what's with all the fibre still in the holder ???

Yeah, I'm a bit cautious to remove any more verdigris, especially using chemical methods, because I'd rather not have a patch of pitted, unpatinated bronze, where it used to be. Having said that, so far, except in the centre of the verdigris rings, all the metal revealed has retained the patina so it's possible that good results could be achieved with more aggresive techniques...

After cleaning with a sharp toothpick this morning, it's looking a bit better.

Yes - Pm'd.

This is an interesting suggestion and I'll try it out ! I might see if I've got a corroded common bun penny in my junk box to practice with first, not keen to damage the F21 at all given the number of specimens around.

Thanks, Pm'd.

Feel a bit cautious regarding balsamic vinegar - would it not strip the obverse patina ? I'm used to using olive oil but from my experience it won't totally eliminate the verdigris on a coin like this, without keeping it in so long that it changes the color of the coin.

Nice, thanks for the confirmation ! Now I just have the dilemma of whether to try to remove the gunk from the reverse or not... @secret santa, you're welcome to add these photos to the rare pennies site if F21 makes the cut, so to speak.

I bought this thinking it was a F18 (and probably overpaid in that case), but is this actually a F21 with the bust so close to the outer border ?

I love the die clash of "SS" behind George's head. Can you see the whole reverse design ghosted if you rotate the coin through the light ? There's obviously something going on near the X of REX too.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Edward-VII-Penny-1902-Low-Tide-Variety/202980311518 A "scarce higher grade example"

There are definitely whole series of 18th century "tokens" which are really just medals sold as tokens, and never saw circulation; e.g. almost all of the Spence pieces, and many of the issues of Kempson, Skidmore and Denton. The contrast with the modern RM issues is really that the mintage of the collectors 18th century tokens were generally pretty small (at most a few thousand, typically only a few hundred or even less), whereas the RM produces millions of commemorative coins every year. My prediction would be that things like the Queen Anne £5, with mintage ~12,000 will retain value, whereas anything with mintage above 100,000 or so just won't have enough collector demand to be worth much in the long run (Kew Gardens included, except perhaps really choice mint pieces !). You see a similar effect in the US commemorative series (admittedly of rather better artistic quality), where the Old Spanish Trail piece of 1935 with a mintage ~10,000 is worth a lot of money, and the Booker T. Washington pieces with mintages of 1,000,000 + have little value except in choice mint state; and that's with a much larger collecting population.

Fair enough. I guess my point is that both modern mint commemorative offerings and struck-for collectors 18th century tokens lack any of the constraints which apply to regular coinage, and we might appreciate the former less than they deserve due to a lack of perspective...things made of metal last a long time. I'm sure the commemorative coin mania will be temporary, but IMO it certainly will provide an interesting field for numismatists of the far future. Just look at all the specious Brexit themed 50 pences (of very dubious aesthetic value) being produced for one thing...

I love this admittedly ludicrous medal, I own far too many of them (7 I think ?)

I guess in the same way that most of the 50 pences the Royal Mint issues are not (in the words of a newspaper columnist of yesteryear) "celebrating the year of the sausage" ?

We can hope such atrocities will be forgotten, but back when I was at university, people were studying Victorian smut rather carefully...

It is deservedly appreciated, but not I think for its artistic qualities...

I wonder whether in the late 18th century this was the reaction to some of the more outlandish token designs which people were shelling out serious money for - I'm thinking about the IMO rather ugly "Wild Man of the Land of Jesso" piece issued by Summers - when they could of course have been collecting Tudor and Stuart coinage, or hammered/ancient pieces, generally at a fraction of the real cost we pay today. What now appears crass and commercial will probably be a charming curio to collectors of the 23rd century...

In practice I've never seen a forgery of one of those either, difficult with the corrosion and the copper plug, no-one sane would buy a unprovenanced "clean" example. I'd guess it would be much easier to make a quality forgery of e.g. an 18th century American cent or English civil war siege pieces, which in practice are issues you have to be careful with.