Bernie

Auction Part 2 now in progress New pictures have been placed at CCC of pennies Gouby 1860T and Freeman 36, should help sell them!!

Auction Part 2 now in progress

I visited your website, very impressive, will bookmark !! The picture of the 1860T (lot 8) is highly unrepresentative of the actual coin. The scratches and scars that appear on the picture are not as apparently obvious and the coin is a chocolate brown colour. The area around where the (missing) colon dots should be is unclear. I therefore are attaching a picture of the area.

I visited your website, very impressive, will bookmark !!

Some overstrikes are clear, but that one isn't. You need, and quite reasonably requested, a close up pic of the date, and it seems a bit unintelligent of Cookes to simply send you the existing pic. This very coin in the auction was the actual discovery coin owned by Malcolm Peake which led to the recorded variation in the "Bronze coinage of Great Britain" author Michael J Freeman

Attached is a picture of the milled edge.

The catalogues will probably not arrive until Monday 8th. November.

Here is a copy of the article from the Sept 1967 Spink Numismatic circular, Author Jim Noble, Formally of Spink & Son, London, now Noble Numismatics Sidney Australia.

The dies could have been made in 1881, followed by a test run. The dies, Freeman reference obverse 11 and reverse N were used on some of the pennies struck in 1883 at the Royal Mint, although the royal mint have no record of pennies or any other denomination struck by them in 1882. One example of an 1882 penny was found in Australia and brought to England in 1967. This coin was described as near FDC, proof looking. This would fit well with a small test run of the dies. (SNC Sept.1967)

How many London Mint 1882 pennies would you say have survived (all grades)? Freeman has them as R17 (16 to 50 in existence). That was in 1985. Given their unique status, there's likely still the same number now, but most of those will be in private collections, which will probably not see the light of day for a very long time, if ever. That includes the prime example Bernie showed us a few weeks back. To my knowledge there is about eight graded Fine to UNC, there are more in just identifiable to Near fine, a probable twenty specimens in total that have so far come to light. 16 to 50 is a fairly wide estimated range. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say less than 40. I bet there's maybe 10 which will come up for sale in the next 3 years, say ~ and the sales points could be anywhere. Mind, most of them will be flat discs. Gouby quotes R9 for the 1882 London penny which is "2-9 possibly known". Although he doesn't say exactly how he comes by this estimate I wonder if he doesn't count the flat discs? That is a distinct possibility. To my knowledge there is about eight graded Fine to UNC, there are more in just identifiable to Near fine, a probable twenty specimens in total that have so far come to light.

How many London Mint 1882 pennies would you say have survived (all grades)? Freeman has them as R17 (16 to 50 in existence). That was in 1985. Given their unique status, there's likely still the same number now, but most of those will be in private collections, which will probably not see the light of day for a very long time, if ever. That includes the prime example Bernie showed us a few weeks back. To my knowledge there is about eight graded Fine to UNC, there are more in just identifiable to Near fine, a probable twenty specimens in total that have so far come to light. 16 to 50 is a fairly wide estimated range. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say less than 40. I bet there's maybe 10 which will come up for sale in the next 3 years, say ~ and the sales points could be anywhere. Mind, most of them will be flat discs. Gouby quotes R9 for the 1882 London penny which is "2-9 possibly known". Although he doesn't say exactly how he comes by this estimate I wonder if he doesn't count the flat discs? That is a distinct possibility.

Definately Reverse B, the gap between the trident prong and P of PENNY on Reverse A is twice as wide.

It is a 4+D, Freeman 15, Gouby 1860N, Satin 14, BMC 1632.

Another one I've never heard of, be interested to see the pictures Thanks for the info David I hope that this picture is clear enough, Thanks! Filled die???? It was the 1934 I was commenting on Yes, I agree, most unusual, I haven't seen another specimen. You would have thought that this filling would have occurred gradually.

Nope, damaged die. The filled 2 is raised on the coin so must be incuse on the die. A bit has broken off the die at the inside angle of the 2, unless it is a bit of trapped metal which has attached itself to the flan. You don't have any relief perspective from the image. This particular phenomenon is refered to as a filled die just for description purposes. You are so correct, the die must have been incuse. It is also possible that the die punch that made the die was damaged,not finished properly or had a piece of trapped metal in it. We may never know. What I do know is that this so called filled die 1920 penny is far from unique.

And the 1920 filled 2,

Another one I've never heard of, be interested to see the pictures Thanks for the info David I hope that this picture is clear enough,

I did ask that a few weeks ago. I had a contact from CCC re the first part and there is just a whiff, the merest hint that they might have their knickers in a twist over exactly who bid on what. I don't know for sure, we shall have to wait and see how the whole thing plays out. Re the part two though, to capture the mood of todays triumph in the Ryder cup, you would have thought that they would put their strongest offerings out first in the hope of generating interest. Again, we shall see. There's a full-page colour advert from CCC in the October "Coin News" for Part 2 of the sale in which the following eight coins are shown: 1875 Bronze Proof F81 1868 Cupronickel Proof F57 1867 Bronzed Proof F54 1862 3 Plumes variety F39* (Satin 43) 1860 Beaded Border 'mule' (Satin 2) 1869 F59 1865/3 F51 1875H F85 (wide date) Thank you all for taking such great interest in the Auction Part 1. I have been keeping a relatively low profile during the auction and being most careful when replying to emails. I have had to be very careful not to influence the auction bidding in any way, as this would be most unethical. Congratulations to any readers who managed to secure any of the pennies. commiserastions to any of you who failed to get the coins that you wanted. All bids, winners and losers added to the auction result. James was hoping to achieve £55000 for each part of the auction. The first part realized ~£56,000. It will probably be over a month before the next auction, so here is a list of what will be on offer, although they may not necessarily appear in this order. Auction 2 2.1) Gouby 1860B, Dies A+c, Satin 2, Currency pattern obverse, Exceedingly Rare. Ex. Malcolm Peake Collection. 2.2) Gouby 1860BB, Dies B+b, Freeman 8B, Satin 3, P2054 Currency pattern obverse, Exceedingly Rare. Ex. Malcolm Peake Collection. 2.3) Gouby 1860E, Freeman 6, Dies 1+B. Satin 6. P1617 2.4) Gouby 1860F, Freeman 7, Dies 1+C. Satin 7. P1623 Ex. Malcolm Peake Collection. 2.5) Gouby 1860JA, Satin 11, N over N sideways, “A†over “A†in VICTORIA (Freeman 2*+D). 2.6) Gouby 1860DD, Freeman 12, Proof Dies 2+D, P1631 weight 9.904 grams. Bought from S.N.C October 1997, Exceedingly Rare. 2.7) Gouby 1860M, Freeman 14, Satin 13, Dies 3+E, P1626 Extremely Rare in this grade. Bought S.N.C. December 1991, Ex. Keith Ashman Collection. 2.8) Gouby 1860T, Freeman 15*, Satin 19, P1632A with open fishtail and missing colon dots after F:D, Extremely Rare. Ex. Iain Draycott Collection. 2.9) Gouby 1860W, Freeman 16, Dies 5+D, Satin 21, P1633 Unusually small cutaway at base of Victoria’s bust. 2.10) Gouby 1860X, Freeman 16*, Satin 22, P1634 with ONF instead of ONE. 2.11) Gouby 1861A, Freeman 18, Satin 24, Dies 2+D, P1637 Extremely Rare in this grade, Ex. Malcolm Peake Collection. 2.12) Gouby 1861B, Freeman 20, Dies 2+G, Satin 25, P1638 Bought from Michael Gouby. 2.13) Gouby 1861D, Freeman 22, Dies 4+D. Satin 27. P1639 2.13A) Gouby 1861G, Freeman 22* Dies 4*+D Satin 28 with cental cut fishtail, different die pair to coin in Part 1, Extremely rare. 2.14) Gouby 1861Ga, Satin 28A, Freeman 22** with central fishtail and misaligned colon dots after F:D, Exceedingly Rare, just the two known so far. 2.15) Gouby 1861K, Freeman 29, Satin 33, Dies 6+D. P1644 2.16) Gouby 1861L, Freeman 30, Dies 6+D, Satin 34, with 6 over 8 in date. Extremely Rare. Ex. Malcolm Peake Collection. 2.17) Gouby 1861M, Freeman 32, Dies 6+F, Satin 35, P1645A Exceedingly Rare in this Grade, the finest known struck from its die pair. Bought from Michael Gouby. 2.18) Gouby 1861N, Freeman 33, Satin 36, Dies 6+G. P1646 2.19) Gouby 1861N, Freeman 33, Dies 6+G, with close 1 in date. 2.20) Gouby 1861Y, Freeman 37, Bronze Proof, Dies 6+G, P1649 Exceedingly Rare. 2.21) Gouby 1862C, Freeman 39, Satin 40, Dies 6+G. P1653 2.22) Gouby 1862H, Freeman 39, Dies 6+G, Satin 44, with B in BRITT struck over an R. Exceedingly Rare. 2.23) Gouby 1862F, Freeman 39*, Satin 43, Dies 6+G with three extra Plumes. Exceedingly Rare. 2.24) Gouby 1863A, Freeman 42, Satin 45, Dies 6+G. P1655 2.25) Gouby 1864B, Freeman 48, Dies 6+G, Satin 52, P1663 with Crosslet 4 in date. Extra Rare in this grade. Ex. Keith Ashman Collection. 2.26) Gouby 1865A, Freeman 50, Dies 6+G. P1667 2.27) Gouby 1865B, Freeman 51, Dies 6+G P1666 with 5 over 3 in date, Extra Rare in this grade. Bought from Colin Cooke. 2.28) Gouby 1866A, Freeman 52, dies 6+G. P1670 2.29) Gouby 1867R, Freeman 54, Proof Dies 6+G, P1680 Bronzed Proof, Exceedingly Rare, bought from Spink & Son. 2.30) Gouby 1868P, Freeman 58, Proof Dies 6+G, P1683 Bronzed Proof, bought from A H Baldwin. 2.31) Gouby 1868T, Freeman 57, Proof Dies 6+G. P1684 Struck in CuproNickel. Extremely Rare. Ex. Alderley Collection. 2.32) Gouby 1869A, Freeman 59, Dies 6+G, P1685 prooflike obverse and reverse. Pleasing, and Extremely Rare in this grade. 2.33) Gouby 1874A, Freeman 65, Dies 6+G. P1690 2.34) Gouby 1874H, Freeman 66, Dies 6+G. P1694 2.35) Gouby 1874C, Freeman 70, Dies 7+G. P1692 2.36) Gouby 1874L, Freeman 71, Dies 7+G. P1696 2.37) Gouby 1874N, Freeman 73, Dies 7+H. P1697 2.38) Gouby 1874N, Freeman 73, Dies 7+H with 7 over 7 in date. Extremely Rare. 2.39) Gouby 1874P, Freeman 74, Proof Dies 7+H. P1698 Extra Rare. 2.40) Gouby 1874E, Freeman 77, Dies 8+G. Extra Rare in this Grade. Ex. Malcolm Peake Collection. 2.41) Gouby 1874F, Freeman 78, Dies 8+H. Extremely Rare in this grade, probably the finest known. Ex. Keith Ashman Collection. 2.42) Gouby 1875P, Freeman 81, Proof Dies 8+H, P1702 Bronze Proof graded as CGS90, Exceedingly Rare, NFDC. 2.43) Gouby 1875C, Freeman 82, Dies 8+J. P1703 2.44) Gouby 1875H, Freeman 85, Dies 8+J, P1705 Extremely rare in this grade, Ex. Keith Ashman Collection. 2.45) Gouby 1876A, Dies 8+K, no H ? clogged die? 2.46) Gouby 1876K, Freeman 89, Dies 8+K. P1708 2.47) Gouby 1877B, Freeman 91, Dies 8+J. P1709 2.48) Gouby 1877P, Freeman 93, Proof Dies 8+J, P1710 Exceedingly Rare, Ex. C W Peck and Turner Collections. 2.49) Gouby 1878A, Freeman 94, Dies 8+J. P1712 2.50) Gouby 1879C, Freeman 98, Dies 9+K, P1716 Could be the finest known. Ex. Malcolm Peake Collection. 2.51) Gouby 1880A, Freeman 99, Dies 9+J. P1717 2.52) Gouby 1880B, Freeman 101, Dies 9+L. P1719 2.53) Gouby 1881B, Freeman 105, Dies 10+J. Extremely Rare in this grade. Very underated. Ex. Malcolm Peake Collection. 2.54) Gouby 1881C, Freeman 106, Dies 11+J. P1722 Extremely Rare in this grade, possibly the finest known. Ex. Malcolm Peake Collection. 2.55) Gouby 1881H, Freeman 108, Dies 11+M. P1724 2.56) Gouby 1882K, Freeman 111*, Dies 11+M with 2 over 1 in date. This was THE coin owned by Malcolm Peake who first reported the existence of this overdate. 2.57) Gouby 1882L, Freeman 114, Dies 12+M. P1728 2.58) Gouby 1882N, Freeman 115, Dies 12+N. P1729 2.59) Gouby 1884A, Freeman 119, Dies 12+N. P1733 2.60) Gouby 1885A, Freeman 121, Dies 12+N. P1735 2.61) Gouby 1888B, Freeman 126#, Dies 12+N with top serifs of “Iâ€s missing in VICTORIA. 2.62) Gouby 1889Cd, Freeman 127##, Dies 12+N. 9 in date struck extremely wide. Extremely Rare. Ex. Malcolm Peake collection. 2.63) Gouby 1891A, Freeman 132, Dies 12+N. P1744 2.64) Gouby 1893A, Freeman 136, Dies 12+N. P1748 2.65) Gouby 1894A, Freeman 138, Dies 12+N. P1749 2.66) Gouby 1895P, Freeman 140, Proof Dies 1+A. P1940 P in PENNY 2mm. from trident. Exceedingly Rare. Ex. Malcolm Peake Collection. 2.67) Gouby 1897A, Freeman 145, Dies 1+B. P1943 2.68) Gouby 1897C, Freeman 148, Dies 1+C. Extremely Rare in this grade. 2.69) Freeman 151, Dies 1+B. with milled edge. Extremely Rare. 2.70) Gouby 1900A, Freeman 153, Dies 1+B. P1947 2.71) Gouby 1902A, Freeman 156, Dies 1+A, P2205 Low Tide. 2.72) Gouby 1902B, Freeman 157, Dies 1+B, P2206. 2.73) Gouby 1903B, Freeman 158A, Dies 1+B, Open 3 in date. Believed to be the finest known. Bought from Paul Wincott. 2.74) Gouby 1904A, Freeman 159, Dies 1+B. P2209 2.75) Gouby 1905B, Freeman 161, Dies 1+C. P2211 2.76) Gouby 1906A, Freeman 162, Dies 1+C. P2212 2.77) Gouby 1907A, Freeman 163, Dies 1+C. P2213 2.78) Gouby 1908A, Freeman 164, Dies 1+C. P2214 2.79) Gouby 1908B, Freeman 164A, Dies 1*+C. Extremely Rare. 2.80) Gouby 1909A, Freeman 168, Dies 2+D. P2218 2.81) Gouby 1909A, Freeman 168, Dies 2+D, with a Dot after N in ONE. Exceedingly Rare. 2.82) Gouby 1909B, Freeman 169, Dies 2+E. Extremely Rare. 2.83) Gouby 1910A, Freeman 170, Dies 2+E. P2219 2.84) Gouby 1911X, Hollow Neck, Extremely Rare. 2.85) Gouby 1913B, Freeman 175, Dies 1+B. P2246 2.86) Gouby 1913C, Freeman 176, Dies 2+A. P2246A 2.87) Gouby 1913D, Freeman 177, Dies 2+B. P2247 2.88) Gouby 1915B, Freeman 179*, Dies 2+B. recessed ear, broken tooth in toothed border near second T of BRITT. 2.89) Gouby 1916B, Freeman 180*, Dies 2+B. recessed ear, broken tooth in toothed border near second T in BRITT. 2.90) Gouby 1917A, Freeman 181, Dies 2+B. P2251 2.91) Gouby 1919A, Freeman 185, Dies 2+B. P2255 2.92) Gouby 1919H, Freeman 186, Dies 2+B. P2256 2.93) Gouby 1919K, Freeman 187, Dies 2+B. P2257 2.94) Freeman 188*, Dies 2+B, part filled date numeral 2. 2.95) Gouby 1921B, Freeman 191, Dies 3+B. P2261 2.96) Gouby 1922A*, Freeman 192* Dies 3+B. Struck on flan containing a ferrous metal, attracted strongly with magnet. Exceedingly Rare, Probably Unique. 2.97) Gouby 1926B, Freeman 195, Dies 4+B, P2265 Extremely Rare in this grade. 2.98) Gouby 1931A, Freeman 205, Dies 5+C. P2275 2.99) Gouby 1932A, Freeman 207, Dies 5+C. P2277 2.100) Gouby 1934A, Freeman 210, Dies 5+C. P2280 2.101) 1934 Freeman 210*, Dies 5+C, missing waves and rocks left of shield, Exceedingly rare and possibly Unique. 2.102) Gouby 1937P, Freeman 218, Proof Dies 1+A. P2401 2.103) Gouby 1937R, Freeman 220, Proof Dies 1+B. P2401B 2.104) Gouby 1937, Freeman 221, Dies 2+B. 2.105) Gouby 1938A, Freeman 222, Dies 2+B. P2402 2.106) Gouby 1939A, Freeman 224, Dies 2+B. P2404 2.107) Gouby 1944A, Freeman 229, Dies 2+C. P2409 2.108) Gouby 1946A, Freeman 233, Dies 2+C. P2413 2.109) Gouby 1946B, Freeman 233*, Dies 2+C, with die flaw after ONE’. 2.110) Gouby 1949A, Freeman 238, Dies 3+C. P2418 2.111) Gouby 1950A, Freeman 240, Dies 3+C. P2420 2.112) Gouby 1950P, Freeman 241, Proof Dies 3+C. P2421 2.113)Gouby 1951A, Freeman 242, Dies 3+C. P2422 2.114) Gouby 1951P, Freeman 243, Proof Dies 3+C. P2423 2.115) Gouby 1953P, Freeman 246, Proof Dies 1+B. P2503 2.116) Gouby 1966J, This is a mule of a Jersey penny obverse and a British reverse. Extremely Rare. 2.117) Gouby 1965N, Freeman 255*, Dies 3+H. Struck on an undersized CuproNickel flan. Exceedingly Rare. 2.118) Gouby 1966N, Freeman 256*, Dies 3+I, Struck on an undersized CuproNickel flan. 2.119) Gouby 1967F, Struck on a thick heavy flan weighing 11.7929 grams. Exceedingly Rare. 2.120) Gouby 1967H, Struck on a thick heavy flan of CuproNickel weighing 12.3013 grams. Exceedingly Rare.

It certainly is a Freeman 16, very nice coin, nice grade.

Yes, Very respectable coins, very nice...

I share your pain. Mine are too busy fighting, shagging and doing things they'd rather I didn't know about to concentrate on anything so 'static' as collecting coins. I can just about get them to play golf, but that's as far as they will go. Shouldn't mind some of that myself, not the fighting or golf though. Sorry but I couldn't resist that !!

As far as I can see, there are no bids on the 'Dot' yet ? Well, at least you had the experience of selling and have learned what an imprecise business coin trading is. Generally speaking, over the short and medium terms, we collectors are going to lose money. Fact.

As far as I can see, there are no bids on the 'Dot' yet ? Well, at least you had the experience of selling and have learned what an imprecise business coin trading is. Generally speaking, over the short and medium terms, we collectors are going to lose money. Fact. Just one thing (or two) The LCA dot penny was judged to be EF with some lustre by certain collectors that viewed the coin. There is a massive difference in grade between EF and Lustrous UNC in my opinion. The last UNC dot penny was sold for £1600 according to information that I was given. After reading comments on this site, James thought it right to lower the reserve price for his dot penny to £1500 before the auction started. In the event of coins not selling, I have agreed to buy the remaining coins that have been returned to him.

To my eyes 13 is quite a bit more lustrous ? I do agree though, that the dealers description is of very little use to the prospective purchaser in distinguishing between the coins. I suppose, to be fair, CCC are expecting the photographs to do most of the talking and it must be quite difficult to come up with something different to say about so many similar coins. In the end, CCC are giving an opinion, it's their opinion, you are entitled to yours and ultimately you get to choose whether to part with your cash or not. There is another factor that hasn't been mentioned yet. A coins apparent lustre appears to vary with the different type and brightness of light reflecting from the coin. The appearance can vary enormously when viewed in tungsten lighting compared to bright sunlight. This will probably wind some of you up .... some dealers photograph bronze coins with very bright halogen lights, this can make a brown coin appear very lustrous. That is my twopenny worth, not getting involved in grading discussion, too much like politics or religion.