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1887jubilee

Unidentified Variety
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Everything posted by 1887jubilee

  1. Sorry to be so long replying. I just collect 1887 at the moment as there are about 300! If there is anything I can help with please call. Can you confirm your measurements range from 33.59-34.65. Have you found the ones with the broken serifs yet? Have you included the Spink & Son patterns? Give me a ring.
  2. Thank you for that vote of confidence. There was a thread about the 1887 Crowns that had quite a lot on die varieties and I put the link below for your help. http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6425&view=getnewpost This is not published as far as I know because I have only done the research in the last couple of years. There are other problems apart from the obvious one that the obverse size varies a lot with the use of the pantograph. It depends what depth you want to go into. There are certainly 4 reverses for 1887 alone and at least 20 obverses. As to die pairings. I regret that only the most common reverse is paired with all the obverses. As yet I have insuficient data to say for sure if the other reverses are paired with all twenty+ obverses. Feel free to give me a ring on 07967505509 to discus. What varieties do you think exist?
  3. I reckon you will find it difficult to get a meaningful answer to that one. We are all a bit cagey about what we spend on our hobby and even more circumspect about how much we earn. If it helps my usual spend is about £50-100. Though I did once spend a year's salary on a coin but which year? I was on £4 a week when I started work. That would be in about 1573 and I was paid in groats.
  4. 1887jubilee

    1887 SIXPENCE R over V

    I'm not sure that I agree with it being an R/I with a slanted I. The serifs aren't very long and the angle of the I is so slight as to be almost negligible. The following picture is from the same coin and shows the R/I also used in GRATIA. Presumably the alterations to the Rs would have been made at the same time with the same punch, which shows that you would need either a much larger slant on the I or a substantial die break to connect the serif to the leg of the R. Ok there is your particular coin which shows the serif well over to the right but my research shows that all four Rs on the obverse are overstruck and that this has been done individualy on each one. Worse still the "I" used is, in many cases, not of the same font size as the R. So in some instances it would appear above the foot, below the top, to the left, to the right, twisted, below the foot, or placed so as to look exactly like a perfect R. As you can see from the R of GRATIA it is to the left of the R and the serif is smaller than the left serif of the R whereas the overstrike in VICTORIA is not the same at all. Look now at the Rs of BRITT and REGINA, these will also be overstruck but the chances are they will not look like the first two. My guess is they will look twisted out slightly clockwise with a faint line in the upright. This is most common on the 3rd. and 4th. R. I show a picture of a particular R/I in BRITT. give me a ring 07967505509
  5. 1887jubilee

    1887 SIXPENCE R over V

    The magnification I have available is not quite as good as the camera and nor is my eyesight for that matter, but I'm pretty sure that the foot of the upright and the leg of the R are connected. I think that there is also a slight curve upwards where the foot meets the leg, which is what made me think it may be R/B. I will try and get some more photos from slightly different angles to see if I can get it any clearer. I think this photo shows it better. A good case for R/B could be made there. However, don't also discount the possibility that parts of a letter can join up - look at the 'leakage' on the right of the base of the T; the same thing might have happened with the R. Well you can't get any better than that. This photo convinces me the so called R/B is just an R/I. The particular effect is created by striking the I slightly twisted. You can see how it is low at the top of the R and particularly low on the left hand side this pushes the right hand serif further out to the right. It is still just possible there is a B in there somewhere just as there is a V in the R/V but the main point in both cases is the low and clearly visible top of the I . My vote is R/I previously known as R/B. Anyone else agree? Come on where are you Rob, let's here what you would be happy to go to print on. Well at least not this with its obvious spelling mistake. Sorry .......for "here" read "hear"
  6. 1887jubilee

    1887 SIXPENCE R over V

    The magnification I have available is not quite as good as the camera and nor is my eyesight for that matter, but I'm pretty sure that the foot of the upright and the leg of the R are connected. I think that there is also a slight curve upwards where the foot meets the leg, which is what made me think it may be R/B. I will try and get some more photos from slightly different angles to see if I can get it any clearer. I think this photo shows it better. A good case for R/B could be made there. However, don't also discount the possibility that parts of a letter can join up - look at the 'leakage' on the right of the base of the T; the same thing might have happened with the R. Well you can't get any better than that. This photo convinces me the so called R/B is just an R/I. The particular effect is created by striking the I slightly twisted. You can see how it is low at the top of the R and particularly low on the left hand side this pushes the right hand serif further out to the right. It is still just possible there is a B in there somewhere just as there is a V in the R/V but the main point in both cases is the low and clearly visible top of the I . My vote is R/I previously known as R/B. Anyone else agree? Come on where are you Rob, let's here what you would be happy to go to print on.
  7. 1887jubilee

    1887 SIXPENCE R over V

    I agree with Peck that the other one is more likely an R/I, because the top bar of the V would not be in the same position. If you could see the top bar of the V it would be to the left of the upright of the R. However, most pictures of R/? I have seen also have that doubled top bar. Here are a couple of pictures: one is R/V; the other is a possible R/B and both could probably also be called over I I am intrigued by the "R/B" photograph which is as clear as you can get, well done, but there is nothing like seeing the actual coin. when you hold it is there a nick in the leg of the R and are the right serif foot of the R and the leg connected? I have commented previously that I think the R/B is just an R/I with the right serif further over (see how the I is turned anticlockwise). What are your views. This is the first time I have seen a picture good enough to bring that view into doubt.
  8. 1887jubilee

    1887 SIXPENCE R over V

    When you say 620 were JH, how many of these were shield reverse? did any of the JH Shield rev have the A in Victoria over a much higher A? I have come across this overstike just twice. Also do you know of any die varieties of the JEB on truncation type or was it a sole pairing of dies? 418. I would like to talk to you. 07967505509 Thank you, very interesting stats. That is a lot of 1887s to look through! Yeah sure thing, when is the best time(s) to call? 8-9:30 pm this sunday, most evenings after 7pm except Wednesday. Any call will get me during the day but I may not be near the files with all the detail. 10am is usually good.
  9. 1887jubilee

    ID please

    We might need a picture to get us started please
  10. 1887jubilee

    1887 SIXPENCE R over V

    When you say 620 were JH, how many of these were shield reverse? did any of the JH Shield rev have the A in Victoria over a much higher A? I have come across this overstike just twice. Also do you know of any die varieties of the JEB on truncation type or was it a sole pairing of dies? 418. I would like to talk to you. 07967505509
  11. 1887jubilee

    1887 SIXPENCE R over V

    Well done they are as you say R/I and R/V. You can get the photo by holding the lens on the front of the camera and then using the macro option. It's all about focus.
  12. 1887jubilee

    1887 SIXPENCE R over V

    That sounds more like the R over I (apparently there's a lot of these.) I can't resist putting in my two pennyworth any longer. Of the last 703 sixpences of 1887 I have examined 83 were YH and 620 JH. Of the Jubilee head 445 had short serif Rs and 175 had long serifs. Very close examination inclines me to the view that all 175 are of the type R/I. Further all the Rs are overstruck. So 25% of all 1887 sixpences are R/I but don't tell anyone or the bottom will drop out of the market. They really are very common. As for the R/B I think it safe to say this is not R/B but a form of the R/I where the overstrike is closer to the leg of the R. Certainly the R/B offered by St. James recently was just an R/I misdescribed. There are however many different versions of the R/I as each die seems to have been made individually and I have yet to ask the Royal Mint how many there were. I have as many as 40+ R/I s of these there at least 20+ different dies. I would really like to hear what Rob has to say on the subject before I give away all my hard work. PS how did you do the photo Declan; was it with a USB microscope?
  13. 1887jubilee

    1860 Weyl Pattern Penny in Tin

    I like the Weyl patterns also. I have the half penny P-2192 in FDC (Gem MS66). Can I have a go since it is well past the 2007 post. Rob will tell you I am an avid 1887 collector and have the P2193 ex Heritage 2007 and the Lead 3 date with "one or two others" ex Plymouth Auction Rooms 18/4/2008. I would like to have a chat about the 1887 coins. What would be the best way to communicate? I would be happy for Rob to give you my details. see my attachment below
  14. 1887jubilee

    1860 Weyl Pattern Penny in Tin

    Where did you get it? Goldberg's Terner Sale of May, 2003. Hardly seems possible it was eight years ago. Marv ..or that your reply took 4 and a half years Can I have a go since it is well past the 2007 post. Rob will tell you I am an avid 1887 collector and have the P2193 ex Heritage 2007 and the Lead 3 date with "one or two others" ex Plymouth Auction Rooms 18/4/2008. I would like to have a chat about the 1887 coins. What would be the best way to communicate? I would be happy for Rob to give you my details.
  15. 1887jubilee

    1860 Weyl Pattern Penny in Tin

    When you say "3 date 1887 pieces in lead" I know you mean they have three dates but do you also mean there is more than one of them and if so are they part of your collection? No, the 1887 pieces in lead with 3 dates appear to be unique. Thank goodness I have got it then.
  16. Has anybody got one of these and is it any good for coins? They cost about £20 on ebay and have magnification up to x500 but that seems too powerful for most of my needs. Can you buy them anywhere else other than ebay?
  17. 1887jubilee

    USB microscopes

    Thank you all for your help. Which type was this taken with? 1.3mp or 2.0 mp? Is it the x500 or the x400? does it have software for measuring distances as some advertise?
  18. 1887jubilee

    1860 Weyl Pattern Penny in Tin

    When you say "3 date 1887 pieces in lead" I know you mean they have three dates but do you also mean there is more than one of them and if so are they part of your collection?
  19. 1887jubilee

    My new crown

    This is sometimes true, but it doesn't necessarily follow. Proofs are done on polished specially prepared blanks, double struck, using dies that have been similarly polished. Many such dies are then used for business strikes. If impaired, there would be no way to distinguish them, unless the "proof" still has a razor sharp rim edge, but even this cannot be ruled as conclusive. Remember a proof is not a separate design or issue as such, it is a method or standard of striking which may use exactly the same dies as the normal issues. Agree and see my note below.
  20. 1887jubilee

    My new crown

    Yes it's a nice coin and from one who has quite a few of these you are off to a good start, but which one is it? Now there are several 1887 crowns and it is difficult to tell from your photos but you can see on the coin itself; 1) is the plume to the St. George head double struck or double engraved? 2) is the bottom right serif missing on the 1 of the date? 3) what is the distance between the R of VICTORIA and the T of BRITT? The range is from 34.65mm down to 33.59 for the proof. 4) is the top of the first 8 missing? Now that has whetted your interest there are at least ten or more different sizes in the 1887 Crown as the dies were made using a pantograph to reduce from the master plaster mould. As a guess by eye I would say yours if quite close to 34.00 or less. You will need a vernier calliper to measure it and also need to take at least 10 readings to get any meaningful average. All a bit anoraky for most but that's what we are here for isn't it? Sorry at number 3 it should read T of VICTORIA to R in REG Where exactly should it be measured from? Top of the T to top of R, bottom of T to bottom of R? The measurement is taken from the top of the T in VICTORIA to the top of the R in REG. Great care is needed to ensure the slight bevel on the edge of the lettering is included, minute though it is, and that the calliper is absolutely square with the top of the T. Substantial errors can easily occur as the top of the R is a couple of degrees off square. This is more pronounced depending on the strike. The callipers are cheap enough on ebay.
  21. 1887jubilee

    My new crown

    You will need a vernier calliper to measure it and also need to take at least 10 readings to get any meaningful average. All a bit anoraky for most but that's what we are here for isn't it? Unless you're an engineer and use a micrometer you can get the exact dia with those without having to measure 10x Ah yes but remember your experiments at school, it is always important to take the readings several times and take an average in order to reduce errors. I have found that even using vernier callipers the readings vary by plus or minus.09mm but if you average 10 readings an accuracy of + or - .01 is achievable. I have toyed with using a USB microscope but I think there would be a loss of accuracy. Any information on these from someone who has one would be helpful The reading will vary accoring to how much pressure your applying to the vernier, you can get 10 different readings if the same pressure is not applied. With a micrometer it has a small ratchet on the end and the same pressure can only be applied until the ratchet and digital reading stops. I now have my own question for you 1887 jubilee, how do you tell proof issue 1887 Crown from a normal currency issue, is it the I's in Victoria pointing to beads? You really have picked a good question to ask but the answer is not so simple. The 797 proof crowns in the long sets and the other 225? odd in the silver sets are easy as the thick rim and 33.59 T-R are defining features. The I to a bead is not difficult as there are no beads only dentils and on all crowns I have the I points almost in line with one of these. It varys on the double florin which of course has beads. There are somewhat lesser proof coins or at least "proof like" coins which have been minted with "proof dies" or "polished flans" or "early strike" and these truly can in some cases be described as proof. I have currency proofs at 34.20, 34.22, 34.54, There were also specimen sets which were not proofs but had a high quality finish the problem is that a perfect example of a specimen set coin looks to the average punter to be a proof. When you see the real thing though it is pretty unmistakable. As a rule if in doubt, it isn't. I am posting again later with a photo of the T-R measurement which you will see is not possible to take with a micrometer, would that it were.
  22. 1887jubilee

    My new crown

    You will need a vernier calliper to measure it and also need to take at least 10 readings to get any meaningful average. All a bit anoraky for most but that's what we are here for isn't it? Unless you're an engineer and use a micrometer you can get the exact dia with those without having to measure 10x Ah yes but remember your experiments at school, it is always important to take the readings several times and take an average in order to reduce errors. I have found that even using vernier callipers the readings vary by plus or minus.09mm but if you average 10 readings an accuracy of + or - .01 is achievable. I have toyed with using a USB microscope but I think there would be a loss of accuracy. Any information on these from someone who has one would be helpful
  23. Thanks Garry. Apart from the first page, that first one has come out fine. (But the site I had to get it from ... GAAAAAH! Don't the stupid people who create those 'captchas' understand that a robot can't read ANYTHING in a picture? On the other hand, if they put a wavy line through the characters, then humans can't read it either!! What a bunch of total pillocks!) Anything on 1887 £5 or £2 in there. I can't get it to download.
  24. 1887jubilee

    My new crown

    Yes it's a nice coin and from one who has quite a few of these you are off to a good start, but which one is it? Now there are several 1887 crowns and it is difficult to tell from your photos but you can see on the coin itself; 1) is the plume to the St. George head double struck or double engraved? 2) is the bottom right serif missing on the 1 of the date? 3) what is the distance between the R of VICTORIA and the T of BRITT? The range is from 34.65mm down to 33.59 for the proof. 4) is the top of the first 8 missing? Now that has whetted your interest there are at least ten or more different sizes in the 1887 Crown as the dies were made using a pantograph to reduce from the master plaster mould. As a guess by eye I would say yours if quite close to 34.00 or less. You will need a vernier calliper to measure it and also need to take at least 10 readings to get any meaningful average. All a bit anoraky for most but that's what we are here for isn't it? Sorry at number 3 it should read T of VICTORIA to R in REG
  25. 1887jubilee

    My new crown

    Yes it's a nice coin and from one who has quite a few of these you are off to a good start, but which one is it? Now there are several 1887 crowns and it is difficult to tell from your photos but you can see on the coin itself; 1) is the plume to the St. George head double struck or double engraved? 2) is the bottom right serif missing on the 1 of the date? 3) what is the distance between the R of VICTORIA and the T of BRITT? The range is from 34.65mm down to 33.59 for the proof. 4) is the top of the first 8 missing? Now that has whetted your interest there are at least ten or more different sizes in the 1887 Crown as the dies were made using a pantograph to reduce from the master plaster mould. As a guess by eye I would say yours if quite close to 34.00 or less. You will need a vernier calliper to measure it and also need to take at least 10 readings to get any meaningful average. All a bit anoraky for most but that's what we are here for isn't it?
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