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Posts posted by Peckris

  1. Barrington Smith (Leicester, I think) are suppliers to many hobbies. I got marked folders with hole inserts from them - one card for a single year, including plastic sleeve, cost me less than £1 a few years back, but you best buy several to make it worth while as they add P&P on top.

  2. Basically, if it's a mis-strike it would have a small value just for interest (bear in mind the number of these that were struck). You could try your luck on eBay. It wouldn't bring much, I would guess.

    However, it's a coin that's been planed flat on one side, it has no value except as a curio.

  3. [both my 1949's are rounded edge (of course). I've never seen a sharp cornered '49, nor knew of their existence before reading this. So thanks.

    By 'cornered', are we talking about the edge or the internal angles? I've just checked the 1949 I bought off Colin Cooke some years ago, and it has sharp edges. I looked close at the internal angles but have no idea which it is. I then checked the 1949 I found in change as a schoolboy and despite the wear, I'm pretty sure it started life as a rounded edge.

    I'm not sure what this proves - I'd not heard of the 1949 variety until this discussion (it's not in the post-1816 varieties review contained in the 1970 Coins and Medals annual, which has been my varieties 'bible' up to now).

  4. Nothing here yet, but I am getting on peoples nerves going through their change with a fine tooth comb. Fake £1's, error 20p's, 2009 issue.....

    Been poking around trying to find some information on exactly how the Mint measure the coins in circulation. Anybody know of any good reference works on the science of physical money supply in a modern economy ?


    Interesting link. Apparently there is a 'mere' £3.5bn in circulating coinage, which is peanuts in an economic sense. What would be really educational is a measure of the coinage as a % of total GDP (or income per capita, or some similar metric). I'm sure there must have been times - e.g. WW1 or earlier - when the % must have been much higher, especially before the introduction of banknotes.

  5. So you are going to end up with a welcome expansion of collectors, but whose grading experience is in the main derived from ebay listings and won't look at a coin described as gVF or nEF despite it being a grade or so higher than the UNCs in their collection.

    Sadly so true. I had a look on eBay yesterday at some George V halfcrowns advertised without grades but as 'really nice'. The photos glittered and sparkled. The grades were clearly better than VF, with the odd EF there. Every single one of them had been beautifully cleaned, hence the 'glitter and sparkle'. They make a nice photo, but a poor purchase...

  6. Davies doesn't use the nose as a pointer and I suspect he orders them the oposite way around to spinks which is very confusing.

    Davies 1805 is I of Georgivs to bead full neck, Rev tuft between I and M, right leg on N in IND to bead.

    Davies 1806 I of Georgivs to space low relief head, Rev tuft between I and M, right leg of N in IND to bead.

    Davies 1807 I of Georgivs to space low relief head, Rev tuft closer to M, right leg of N in IND to space.

    Davies 1808 is I of Georgivs to bead low relief head, Rev tuft between I and M, right leg of N in IND to bead.

    And finally Davies 1809 is I of Georgivs to bead low relief head, Rev tuft closer to M, right leg of N in IND to space.

    Does he have illustrations, Gary? If so, can you see from them if 1805 is indeed the first obverse? (But in any case, the obverse 1 does have a "full neck" while the shallow protrait has a "hollow neck"). Also, does he state rarities? If he does I should estimate that 1805 will be the rarest, unless any of those low relief varieties is also truly rare.

    And you're right - Spink have listed those descriptors the wrong way round ! :o (At least in the 2005 book which is the latest I have). 'Nose to S' is the common shallow portrait (I of Georgivs to space), 'nose to SV' is the rare first obverse (I of Georgivs to bead full neck). Ignore your Spinks, folks ... <_<

  7. In times of inflation is the coin value is the same?or it will go downwards?

    This is a hopelessly difficult question to answer. Coin collecting (and therefore prices) has different stimuli at different times :

    Late 60s (medium inflation, but impending decimalisation) : coin collecting fever, modern coin prices go through the roof

    Mid 70s (high inflation) : post-decimalisation, modern prices collapse, but pre-1887 values increase sharply (a "true" market)

    Early 80s (medium inflation) : speculation e.g. in silver bullion, pushes coin prices to 'silly levels'

    Mid 80s - mid 90s (low inflation) : gradual stabilisation (aka decline) in coin values, leading to stagnation

    Mid 90s - early millennium (low) : shortages of good material; a return to coin collecting by many of the '60s schoolkids';

    the takeover of the Standard Catalogue by Spink - prices go up double or threefold or even more

    Currently : coin values stabilising from the dramatic increases, but shortage of good material persists

    Whether the economic recession will result in a 'flight of money' (leading to lower coin values), or see coins as a 'hedge against recession and better than shares' (which should stimulate the market), remains to be seen.

    But, it will be increasingly true that there will be more collectors than coins as the supply of pre-decimal coins remains ever-fixed. Never has the maxim 'buy the best quality you can afford' been so true. To give you a humbling lesson : 12 years ago, new to dealing and therefore still wedded to 'book price', I bid for a BU 1873 bronze penny at auction, pulling out when the bidding went past the then book price of £75. I should have known better, I should have hung on. That coin would now easily fetch £400, probably considerably more.

  8. Somewhat oddly, I found the 1921 very difficult to get in UNC condition from anywhere, dealers, e bay etc, despite the relatively high mintage.

    That's true - it's a difficult date in both shillings and halfcrowns, in high grade. However, the 1921 shilling with the 1911-1920 obverse is very rare indeed, especially in top grades. Good luck with tracking that one down!

    A bit of research has revealed the reason for the 1921 problems.


    Every date of the debased coinage of 1920-1927 (the first reverse) is tough except for 1926. In my opinion the key date of the entire George V is 1921. How can this be, when 22.6 million were minted?? First, a very poor debased alloy was used. Second, most of the issue tarnished to an unattractive colour.

    Another thing that make 1921 tough is the five Davies types for this year, I still need the nose to VS which come up ocassionally but I'm looking for EF or better.

    I'm not aware of these different types & would be interested to know.

    By "nose to VS", do you mean one of these, currently for sale on e bay ?

    No, that's the "nose to S" variety (i.e. George V Obverse 2 used between 1920 and 1926). The "nose to VS" variety is Obverse 1, the slightly smaller, deeper cut, better defined obverse that was used between 1911 and 1920. That's what I was referring to above when I was talking about 'good luck tracking it down' (but thanks for the research anyway 1949threepence - I think that site doesn't even know about this variety, or should have mentioned it).

    A small number of 1921 shillings is the only time that Obverse 1 makes an appearance on larger silver after 1920, and it's rare. I only have one, and only in VF. The chances of finding an Unc is very small indeed, and Spink price that variety far too low in my opinion (I was the one who got them to incorporate the two obverses - specifically for this variety - in the Standard Catalogue, and it was my scans of the two 1921 shillings I own, on which I'd highlighted the position of the nose to the legend, that prompted them to come up with the 'nose to S' and 'nose to VS' descriptors.)

    I'd be interested to know the differences that mark the 5 Davies varieties?

    Footnote : I think another reason that 1920 and 1921 are difficult dates, is because of the alloy change. People probably began to hoard pre-20 for its silver content, and got rid of the 50% coins as quickly as they could.

  9. The edges are very sharp, both on the rim and edge serations, would you know if the known proof specimens are plain edges??

    I don't - I've never seen a proof or a specimen for that series, apart from the 1935 'raised edge proof' crown. But the very sharp edges are a good sign. An early strike wouldn't give that in my opinion. It's not definitive of course.

  10. Thanks a lot, PECKRIS!!! I am selling my collection on EBay and may be you have any ideas how march it can cost. May I use your answer in my description on EBay auction? Thanks again!!!

    Steady on there - my reply was only an intelligent "best guess" ! I have no real idea of the type, or the rarity, and you would need a positive identification for eBay (unless you just decide to auction it "on spec"). I'm hoping someone will see this thread who has much more expertise than I do.

  11. This looks like a typical penny from the Edward period, but the obverse is interesting : it appears to be an uncrowned head with the legend (as you say) GVILLS:EPISCOP... This would most likely translate to "Bishop William" (assuming that GVILLS is short for GVLIELMVS). There were Bishops and Archbishops who had their own mints in places such as Durham and York in this period, but I had always thought they issued the king's likeness (I'm no expert I'm afraid).

    Perhaps someone can build on this?

  12. Thanks guys, As Rob says its would seem unlikely they could be proof issues are they are so rare but in all the years I have been doing this I have never come across a currency issue half crown with real mirror images like you have in proof coins, the fields in the design are so proof like I can see my reflection very clear even tough the coin is warn.

    If they are not proof issues, they cannot be normal currency issues, surely they are some sort of special strike...

    Please excuse the pics.... and the camera

    The crucial thing to look at to determine proofs is the edges of the rim : on proofs they will be sharp. It will be a little difficult here as they have had either some circulation or some frequent handling, but they should still be even, regular and fairly crisp. However, the same would be true of specimen strikings, and as these are a long way from FDC it may never be possible to tell the difference.

  13. Thank you Colin, Scott, for your replies. Colin, I am aware that there are date width discrepancies even until the bronze penny reverses of Edward VII, but I've never seen them in the Jubilee Head silver series.

    I didn't point it out, but actually, it's not just the date - the 7 is simply the most dramatic and easy to see difference. When I saw this coin first, even though it is so small I could tell immediately "hey, there's something different, something unusual about this".

    To enumerate as many as I can :

    A toothed border; the regular is much more 'beaded'.

    A different style to the wreath ribbons - the folds not shown, and thinner generally.

    The left hand twig points to a space where on the regular, it points almost over a bead.

    The first 8 has a faint loop above it, as if another 8 was begun to be cut too high up. (Overstrike? Error?)

    The 7 is a more open style, mainly due to a thinner base stroke

    Scott, I can see at a glance that your sixpence is the regular variety. It's about the 'feel' of the reverse, which is what drew me to the variety in the first place.

    I'm not interested in the value, but I AM interested in having the variety recognised and recorded.

  14. Colin Cooke actually told me (this is going back some years - late 90s? early 00s?) that he was working on the farthings volume of a 3-volume series intended to replace Peck (or rather, update Peck - who is probably irreplaceable for the foreseeable future).

    I never heard how far he had got with it, or whether this project has now been abandoned or postponed. As I never had any communication lines with Neil Paisley, I've kind of left this in limbo. Anyone else heard of this project, and if so, how far did it get?

  15. Even were this not the case, I think it is hard to see Cromwell as a Commoner - he did after all refuse the Crown and was head of state at the time when there was no relevant Royalty in England.

    So, having slept on it, I vote for Churchill as the ONLY commoner to appear on our official circulating coinage.

    I think you have to understand the word 'commoner' as quite a technical term : it doesn't mean 'of the common people', it simply means 'not of the Royal Family'. By that definition Cromwell can be nothing other than a commoner, even though he was offered the Crown (he did turn it down after all!).

    I think the full importance of this distinction is highlighted in Ancient Rome where, after 200 years of very varied and often autocratic kingship, the monarchy was overthrown and an aristocratic republic installed in its place. So hated were the kings in Roman consciousness that when the republic ended after 500 years and was replaced by Imperial rule, the Emperors were very very careful to describe themselves as "Princeps" - although we get our word "Prince" from that, in fact it simply meant "First Citizen" (probably the first successful use of NewSpeak? :) ) So Cromwell was probably following this historical example and being careful to avoid tainting his position with the all-too-recent associations of the Throne, which in parts of England was loathed.

  16. As I understand it, the mint, like most factories makes their products in batches which can have quite an effect on how the figures are recorded. Let's go back to the 1869 penny; the mint starts its final batch of 1868 pennies on 15 December, keeps knocking them out until 31 December. On the stroke of midnight 1869, new dies are brought in and the pennies carry on being produced until 5 January when it switches to making farthings. All the pennies are then issued on 15 January. This whole batch would therefore have gone down on the 1869 figures. If the final batch of 1868s had been completed by the end of October, then the anomaly would not have happened.

    In a similar vein, I have a theory as to why 1923 halfcrowns are so easy to find in higher grades :

    1923, produced in large quantities to meet demand, but by the end of the year, demand falls off sharply because of the collapse of WW1 inflation. The unwanted halfcrowns are stocked away somewhere.

    Later in the year there is a modest demand for silver, and for the next three years (as we know) silver mintages are very low, especially halfcrowns and florins. The 1923 halfcrowns are forgotten about until maybe after the new coinage of 1927. All of a sudden they are found and belatedly issued.

    Joe Public - with the new coins in circulation - sees gleaming 1923 halfcrowns and thinks "oh that's the old design, those aren't produced anymore, I'll put this one in a drawer as a keepsake".

    Ok, it is mere speculation of course, but it makes you wonder ...

  17. Pennies are my thing, and it seems to me that it is rather harder to find a 1915 or 1916 in the best condition, yet the mintage figures either side are 1913:65m, 1914:50m, 1915:47m: 1916:86m, 1917:107m, 1918: 87m inc H.

    I don't know if anyone else has found the same to be true ? But for me the interesting thing is that I reckon all the people who would have hoarded '15 and '16's were busy on the battlefields of France, or times were too tough to put a penny aside, so nearly 100 years later, they are rarer than their mintage figures suggest they should be. And that is before one considers subsequent reclamation and meltdown.

    Those are an interesting two years for pennies. It's no coincidence that you often find the 'recessed ear' variety for 1915 and 1916 which MAY (or may not lol) have been an early attempt to do something about ghosting on reverses. Either way, this variation might well explain why they are harder to find in BU. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever seen one? Yet I've seen every other date BU (not counting H and KN) - even 1913.

  18. Straining harder, Is the term 'Commoner' allowed in an Interregnum ?

    Very good point! But I suppose you could say EVERYONE was a commoner in the Commonwealth (pun intended).

    "And don't forget that Una lady with her pet lion"

    Very true - not forgetting 1001 different Britannias...

    As for the allegories - yes of course, but nonetheless the "allegory" features a likeness of an actual costumed person, even if they are not named.

  19. Up to 2789 listings now, including a 2006 with no date on the obverse going off shortly with 2 bidders :wacko:

    Most seem to be going in the £200-300 range, though I see one is over £400 with 5 days to go. Bizarre.

    Given the mentality of these people, it is little wonder the Royal Mint manages to offload vast quantities of overpriced bling.

    Or for an alternative investment - 1967 1d anybody? Only 100,000,000 left.

    Is your 1967 penny full lustre? I will swap for THREE BU 1971 pennies... :D

  20. One interesting thing : if you have a copy of Rotographic's first ever coin booklet - "Check Your Change" 1968 - you will notice that coin values, especially for George VI and Elizabeth I, are almost exclusively based on mintage figures. It makes fascinating reading, especially in the light of what is known now.

    I meant Elizabeth II of course. I tried a "Quick Edit" but there appears to be a bug in the software.

  21. Talking about grey matter, the more you think about this, the more complex an issue it becomes :

    Cromwell is the ONLY commoner to feature on the obverse of a British coin.

    Churchill may be the only commoner to feature as a named reverse type.

    But then, what about those who modelled for certain designs? The young woman who posed for the Edward VII florin reverse ( the standing Britannia), the man who posed for Pistrucci's St George, the copper reverse Britannias of the 17th and 18th centuries - these are all commoners who appeared on coins (though un-named).

  22. i'm basing it more on future value rather then current, most people spend these so they won't check for rarity and as a result probably not, but in the future...

    You could be proved right - in the long term.

    As a study it would be interesting to compare the 2008 £1 and the 1965S shilling (mintage 2,000,000+).

    1965S shilling : current value £1, current availability - plentiful, future prospects - not good as so many BU were put aside in the coin collecting fever of the late 60s

    2008 £1 : current availability - plentiful, future prospects uncertain - not many people will bother to collect the circulation issue BUT don't forget there will be commemorative versions and proofs in RM folders which will probably satisfy demand for years to come.

    One further warning - an interim mintage figure for 1976 50 pences was issued in 1978 which showed a mintage of well under 1,000,000. Many people started to collect them. Final mintage figure? 43,000,000! Bear in mind that your 2008 figure MAY not be final.

    But good luck with it, anyway.

  23. I am not convinced that oil application is the best idea as there are all sorts of oils, some with mildly acidic properties. Another issue is that in this polluted modern environment that most of us live in features many organics that may utilize the oil as a solvent and gain a better access to the surfaces of the coin

    Yes - this is why I stressed both research and experimentation on low value items.