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Posts posted by 1949threepence

  1. Whenever you really need it, the zoom feature isn't on. Not brilliant photography anyway.

    Another feature of reverse F is that the rocks to the left of the lighthouse tail off before they reach the linear circle. Not sure whether that's the case with this one or not.......probably not actually. 

    Given the amount bid, however, some are obviously convinced. 


  2. 5 hours ago, Rob said:

    Not sure about that. He only had 14 1797 pieces whereas Colin had 44 lots.

    With the gold penny you are at the mercy of when one appears.

    In fairness I'm probably not strictly comparing like with like. If you include the late Soho and denominations other than pennies, it was a great collection, especially as it was assembled in just 15 years.

    I'd certainly be interested to know how he came to acquire the ex King Farouk gold penny.  

    4 hours ago, oldcopper said:

    And Colin had all the patterns as well, very comprehensive. It may be that as Ian Sawden only collected the majority of this stuff in a 3 or 4 year window in general about 10 years ago, so he just got hold of as nice stuff as possible that (a) was available at the time, and (b) that he wasn't outbid on. So quite an achievement in that brief timespan.

    I'm surprised he got so much of his stuff from London Coins if he lived abroad, because they don't have online bidding, so he would have had to get someone to bid for him each time, unless he was temporarily living in the UK at the time. Still he certainly scored with those florin patterns, many bought from LC!

    One thing he did miss out on (unless he bought and sold it) was the lot immediately following the gilt twopence in the DNW 2010 sale. This was the lustrous currency 2d which went for £850 hammer. It then turned up at Heritage Auctions 6 months later slabbed as an MS66 RB (despite a noticeable depression in the field on the obverse) and fetched > $7000!

    Now why didn't I bid on that......

    He perhaps used e mail bids and did well on them.

    I received my two won lots today and was pleasantly surprised to see Ian's original notes relating to provenance. That's never happened with any other purchases. 

  3. 52 minutes ago, oldcopper said:

    Fantastic stuff and curious why Ian Sawden limited his Soho collection to pre-1800, so no 1805 patterns or proofs etc of the 1806/7 issue. Was it personal preference? Excepting the 1780 Droz halfpennies and proofs of similar template  to currency pieces, there were few distinctive patterns either, especially pennies - just one helmeted Britannia and one large head 1797 cartwheel penny (and that a restrike) for instance. 

    The 1831 .W.W. went for nearly £1500 all in! One of the nicer ones of course, but still relatively marked compared to the better examples of the main varieties. Mine has an interesting raised die flaw above the last reverse colon, have seen it occasionally elsewhere. Here's LC's only photographed example of another one (not mine):



    Good point. His pre 1800 early Soho rivalled that of Colin Adams, especially with the gold pieces. But as you say there was nothing in the penny department from 1805 to 1807.

    Yep, interesting die flaw on the last colon of your .W.W 1831. There are similar ones in the Victorian copper period, notably 1855 and 1859.    

    • Like 1

  4. 4 hours ago, jaggy said:

    I suppose you have to decided how badly you want a coin, how much you are willing to pay for it and factor the charges into that number. I have always been an auction buyer but, in this last year, I have made more Ebay and private purchases than ever before. The auction house charges are a big part of that. Still, given their ability to attract quality material and the hammer prices being paid, the auction houses seem to be getting the commercial equation about right.

    At the end of the day that's precisely it. If you want a coin badly enough you'll pay the extra.  

  5. 12 minutes ago, Sword said:

    VAT is always payable on buyer's premium. Some auction houses like LCA simply combine the VAT with their buyer's premium to give an overall charge. Buyer's premium inc. VAT so to speak. 

    Other auction houses like DNW don't combine VAT with their premium. I suppose their premium is already high and combining VAT would make it an even higher figure which is not good for marketing.


    Well that did cross my mind, but it does strike me that there's some smoke and mirrors somewhere with DNW as the effective net increase in buyer's premium (inclusive of VAT) since the purchase I made in 2016, is from 24% to  28.8%. The figures don't lie.

    Which is your point to be fair. 

    So what they did was to hide a 4.8% increase in buyer's premium by extracting the VAT and showing it separately. Sneaky.

  6. 5 hours ago, jaggy said:

    Just two coins that interested me but not enough to enter the bidding and especially given that DNW has a very high buyers premium at 24%.

    ...and the rest yesterday...

    OK, so here's a question that somebody brighter than me should be able to answer with ease. How come DNW charge VAT on top of their buyer's premium, when (eg) LCA don't?

    Also, why didn't DNW charge VAT on said buyer's premium up until relatively recently? For example hammer price on coins bought in 2016 for me, was £680.00 Total cost £843.20, which is an increase of exactly 24%.                                                                                                                                  

    Or is there something blindingly obvious I'm missing?   

  7. 43 minutes ago, secret santa said:

    I've no idea why Import Duty is payable - maybe Ian Sawden lived abroad ?

    Yes, possibly Canada.

    His biography says he moved abroad in 1976 and that his youthful interest in coins was rekindled as recently as 2006 when he spied a 1797 cartwheel twopence in a Toronto dealer's shop, bought it, and the rest, as they say, is history.

    link to biography 


    • Like 1

  8. 2 hours ago, secret santa said:

    Actually Mike, it's only 5%. Commission is Buyer's premium (24% of hammer + VAT) + Import  (5% of hammer)

    i.e  £1000 hammer attracts £288 premium plus £50 import - £1338.00 total

    Nevertheless, an additional 5% is less than welcome !

    Yes you're right Richard. Got my invoice and it shows that what has been added is VAT on general lots at 4.8%, plus import duty at 5% as you say. Just checked back on some old DNW invoices and all they show is buyer's premium at 24% - no VAT. There was still a column for VAT on bullion lots, but that was it.

    So the net effect of all that lot (no pun intended) is an additional 33.8% over and above hammer !!!



    vat gone up.PNG

  9. 39 minutes ago, copper123 said:

    So great seeing the different opinions on the 1882 no H penny .

    Surely what these forums were created for .

    ***** Five stars everyone

    Great  discussion, I agree. Some really important considerations raised and debated.

    I've come to the conclusion that I'm only ever going to trust a mint, or near mint state 1882 no H.....

    ......and as I'm probably never going to see another one for sale, let alone be able to afford it, that's me permanently out of the running. 


    • Like 1

  10. 7 hours ago, secret santa said:

    I'd not seen that - many thanks for the link. Really interesting.


    It is very interesting and worth keeping.

    I'm intrigued by item No 20, the 1887 penny with a "grained edge". Whilst I've never seen one I have noted varying opinions regarding their mint authenticity, ie: whether they were engraved post mint or not.

    Naturally, the thicker edged copper coins lent themselves far more readily to edge graining.   

  11. 6 hours ago, VickySilver said:

    Upcoming DNW sale has some Brit copper, was hoping for a 19H improvement but alas not to be...The 1926ME looks quite passable for anybody interested. I am not involved with this sale in any way. The 1862 proof florin is mildly interesting but has an abundance of what appears to be cabinet friction, esp. the obverse..

    Indeed. The Ian Sawden collection has a lot of copper.

    It also has a 1797 excessively rare gold penny. One of only two known. Needless to say it's very very expensive and it'll be interesting to see what it fetches. 

  12. 1 hour ago, VickySilver said:

    Nice work. My Apple does touchups that I don't trust! LOL.

    The left upright seems to possibly show with a dumbbell surmount....


    What is the consensus, would it be possible to accept a specimen as no "H" if no trace is visible? I would logically think so even at the risk of alienating the "pigeonholers".

    Only if virtually mint state as in the one shown on the previous page, or it's clearly the correct die pairing. 

    Otherwise, even if legit, there will always be an element of doubt. 

    • Like 2

  13. 1 hour ago, secret santa said:

    An 1882 F115 with apparently no H was sold by London Coins in 2014


    That may well have been the one we discussed. There's certainly no trace whatever of any underlying disturbance. 

    Another interesting question arising, is whether the no H pennies were produced at the London Mint. Or at the Heaton Mint and one or two errant dies minus the H were produced, but given the extreme rarity, quickly identified. Or maybe both for different reasons. One intentional, the other an accidental omission.

  14. 2 hours ago, secret santa said:

    Just watched the unc 1882 F112 sell for £30,000 plus commission !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Absolutely no surprise whatsoever. Wonder if it stayed in the UK.

    ETA: did you notice what the 1860/59 went for Richard? It was a very nice specimen.