1949threepence

Realistically that only happens in George Floyd territory, where, rather than such polite and discreet questioning, he had some psychotic raving nutjob of a cop screaming obscenities and pointing a gun in his face, based on the assertion of a junior sales assistant, and he subsequently lost his life based on that - murdered. Of course, anybody with half a brain would first establish that the note was a fake, and even if it was, then entertain the strong probability that it was previously passed on in good faith to whoever subsequently decided to spend it, also in good faith (just as we did for many years with the numerous fake £1 coins) - as opposed to assuming that he's got a printing press in his back room. Not forgetting the actual hard evidence that the specific note in question was passed as payment by George, and not by another customer. I'd venture to say that in Rhodes at the moment, checking the actual validity of notes passed, will not be high on their list of priorities.

Not exactly anarchy at that early stage, but you need an alternative to electronic payments in case they break down. Notes and coins are infallible.

What happens when civil society breaks down, even just a bit, as in Rhodes. Nothing electronic works and cards can't be used, so they return to cash. A lot of the ATM's don't work either. So withdrawals in cash from a bank branch are necessary.

Some of them you now could obtain at the same absolute price you would have paid then - unadjusted for inflation. A BU 1953 penny being an example.

You'd think they'd have a second short print run, given the obvious demand.

Folk do what they want to do. To be honest I don't know why anybody would want to go into politics these days, given the abuse and accusations they are subject to. Was very sorry to hear of his passing earlier, and sorry too for all the years of suffering and worry which preceded this (since 2014). He always struck me as a very decent guy. Condolences to his friends and family. May he rest in peace.

Very very interesting and informative. Thanks a lot.

Yes, saw that. The guy concerned must be very naive if he thinks that will fool anyone.

I've joined the group. but cannot find the thread concerned to do screenshots, despite scrolling a very long way down, Could you tag me into the thread and then I can easily oblige.

My 1853 proof penny (below) is somewhat like that, although the very attractive reddish portions on the reverse don't show up to well on the photo. I reckon it has to catch the light in a certain way to be readily visible. I think it came from a set but not certain. Interestingly, there were only 40 sets minted according to information in Coin News as it related to the Tyrant collection - link - but there surely has to be more proof pennies than that, purely from observation. Although when and why the extra were minted is a mystery. Moreover, Peck says there is a bronzed copper proof from 1853, with an inverted reverse. Never seen one advertised though, or seen one anywhere come to that.

I'd agree with all of the above. With regard to the influence of submitters, I'd venture to say that because NGC is an American company, generally (one would assume) employing mostly American staff, they are not so well up on English and other foreign coins, just as we would not be especially familiar with American coins. Hence they can probably get away with suggesting that a well preserved and sharply struck currency coin is a proof, or that a common coin is a rare variety etc.

As you say it's just a number ascribed to an individual coin, and risks subjectivity of grading - ie: different graders, or even the same grader reaching an alternative grade on another day. Good point with your last sentence though.

A case in point regarding the ongoing rise in coin prices. "The Coinery" are offering an 1839 proof penny at their auction of 29.7.23, with estimates of between £5,000 and £6,000, and a minimum starting bid of £4,000. The coin is NGC slabbed in a special "Coinery" holder, and is graded as PF66 BN - link I won an 1839 proof on 22.5.22, also from The Coinery for £3,700 hammer. But I had to fight for it, from the £2500 commission bid I'd left. Mine was also in a special NGC Coinery slab, but PF64 BN. So my theory is that yes, although almost certainly the difference between PF64 & PF66 makes a price difference, I wouldn't have thought it would account for such a sizeable difference. Much of the increase is surely due to overall price rises in coins. Incidentally, any differences betwen this coin, and the one I got, are Rizla paper thin. In fact I'd venture that my reverse is superior to this one. There are marks (scratches) on the coin currently offered, although as with many slabbed coins, it's often difficult to determine whether the mark is on the coin itself, or externally on the plastic holder. 1839 pennies are scarce generally, but rare in undisturbed, issue free, high grade.

love swans

Incidentally, talking about the F38, and looking at Richard's rare penny site for the F38, has anybody noticed that with the exception of the few highrer grade specimens, the bun of Victoria's hair is completely flattened.

I'm amazed they've not included the Medusa.

OK, thanks Jerry, much appreciated.

I can't find it. Looked in advanced search for completed/sold 1862 pennies, but nothing there. Maybe somebody else will have more luck. ETA: have you found it now Richard. I see it's on your rare pennies website for £56, but showing June 2023, rather than July (although was that a different one?)

No, completely missed it. I've got one anyway, but it's not much cop, so I'd bet the one that went was a bit better. A bargain at 2:46am !!! Strange time to have a UK auction end. Although sounds like one of those where you can either bid, or take it as a higher priced BIN.

That is an extremely difficult and rare coin. I got mine from John (Stephen?) Jerrams, who sold it as a PT 1853 only. I was slightly surprised he wasn't aware of the enhanced rarity. Very similar condition to the one you are offering, Ian.

Just took a quick dekko at your Bramah copy on e bay, Ian. Certainly looks a well preserved specimen - and at £95, someone's got a bargain. My tatty ex library copy cost £75. Some go for a great deal more. I must say that I was lucky enough to get my copy very shortly after I started my pre 1860 copper penny collection. Found it a massive help. Although the book was written nearly a century ago and has no photographs, it doesn't really need them, the written description being so accurate and concise. It's a pity that so many dealers don't use Bramah type references, although some do.

Excellent. Been using cabinets for many years and had no deterioration of coins, whatever. The coins will only slide around if the cabinet moves. If you treat it gently, that won't happen. Don't open and close the trays roughly or in a hurry. Besides which I think "cabinet friction" is a casual term often used by those who don't have a clue whether the coin concerned has ever been in a cabinet. A huge clue is the way an old proof is FDC - yet for at least, say, the first 150 years of its existence there was no viable modern alternative to a wooden cabinet.

Yep - you don't need as many recesses for your proofs/patterns as you do for your general currency strike collection, as by definition there will be far fewer. This is a nice box to hold them in Not for everybody though. We all have differing opinions.

Personally I prefer a classic wooden coin cabinet for my copper and bronze proofs. I've got several cabinets, and this is the quite small one I use for my proofs. Walnut, with untreated mahogany trays so as to prevent leeching/contamination. Untreated mahogany is always the best wood for storage. Incidentally, talking of copper proofs, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see quite a few in Noonans auction of the Philip Richardson collection of George III coins on 3rd October 2023 at 14h BST.

Not easy to get, so if anybody can point me in the right direction, I'd be very grateful. Thanks.