1949threepence

The different types of 1865/3 can be seen here on Michael Gouby's site. I agree with Accumulator about the one in his link, though. I saw it yesterday and didn't think it was a 5/3. But also thought I might have missed something.

I went for the 1874, F70, for an upgrade to the rather scruffy looking one I've got now. It was at £180 when I bid with 5 seconds to go ~ bid nearly £100 more (£275.75), and still missed out to the winner who bid with 2 seconds to go. Christ knows how high they bid.

Close call ~ bad luck !!! edit: may have been a tactical error on your part to show your hand so early. I bet if you'd put in a last few seconds snipe you'd have got it at a much lower price. No doubt c***r made a manual snipe with 4 seconds to go.

The Laurie Bamford specimen sold for £1529 ~ not sure if that was the actual highest. The specimen on Colin Cooke's site, being offered for £1200, is comparable with the one just sold. Maybe not as much lustre, and just a suspicion of slight pitting on the obverse.

I've encountered the occasional coin like that, and it always seems to be the reverse which is very slightly convexed outwards. Barely noticeable but it's there.

They are surely just going on how the owner describes the coin, and either not checking up, or turning a blind eye. Nobody in the numismatic field at that level, could mistake a narrow date 1877 from a wide one. It's not terribly professional.

Peter, At the NYINC Convention recently, I asked a NGC Rep. what proof you had to have, to get a coin designated (slabbed) as being a specific variety, or from a specific collection (Workman, etc). He said a receipt, or collector's Ticket from a reputable Dealer or numismatist, stating the fact. An example would be a sales receipt from Colin Cooke, noting that the coin was from the "Edinburgh" collection. BTW...I think there is a additional charge for a coin being designated from a collection, or a specific variety, not known to them.(which would be a lot of varieties, in the case of GB coins!). Even with their errors on coins of Great Britain, I think NGC is our best slabber! IMHO! Ha,Ha! Thanks for that info. Bob. I must get a receipt for my 1860 BU Edinburgh collection penny, which Neil Paisley initially sent me on approval, later cashed the cheque sent to him, but never sent me a receipt. He sent one each for the other two, though. Useful source of provenance.

Not really, no. I take it as the subjective opinion it is, and have the strength of character to make up my own mind on whether or not it actually does detract, myself. Stuff like that doesn't wind me up at all, I'm pleased to say. I just take it as a line that is trying to place the best possible spin on the coin. Something that sellers do.

Do you think knocked off, '49, or die fill? I honestly don't know, Declan. Mine is shown below. As you can see, beads partially missing at between about 10 and 11 o'clock. As though chipped off. Whether caused by die fill or other external damage, just not sure. Only shown reverse as obverse beads complete.

Doesn't exactly inspire confidence does it. If NGC can't get that right, what does it say about their competence with grading ? Along with that ordinary 1862 penny mistaken for the rare ½ penny numerals, which a forum member drew to our attention a few weeks back, it indicates very slapdash work by some who tout themselves as experts.

Your F6 is like mine, Accumulator, with some of the actual beads themselves missing, presumably "knocked off" at some point. Shame.

Define "heat" & "cool" I would have thought it went without saying that few would store their coins adjacent to extreme sources of heat. On the other hand many would quite reasonably store them in dry conditions at room temperature between 18C & 22C, say. The temperature that they are kept in does not gaurantee them their lustre. To ensure they are not affected by moisture, the temperature of the space they are kept in should idealy be about 4 degrees F above the surrounding space temperature. Moisure will not ingress into a higher temperature. If silica gel is placed with the coins, the crystals need regular monitoring. These crystals will saturate within a few hours in normal conditions. Silica gel comes in different forms. The older type silica gel is dark blue when perfectly dry and turns pink when saturated with moisture. The newer type is brown when dry and turns (blue I think) The crystals therefore need to be visible and not in cloth bags. Idealy the coin collection and tray of crystals should be kept in multiple sealed clear plastic bags, with the crystals visible. If silica gel crystals are used, they are only beneficial if kept in their dry state. Saturated crystals will be more harmful than none at all. Silica gel crystals can be dried out in a microwave oven. Sealed plastic bags do not stop 100% moisture. Another thing that affects bronze lustre is sulpher. Tobacco smoke contains substances that quickly degrades lustrous bronze coins. Interesting. Thanks for that useful info. Pleased I don't smoke.......

Like Vicky, I also believe that TPGs do take into account on the position of the marks. The PCGS website give the following defintition for MS65 "Minor marks/hairlines though none in focal areas, above average strike". By "focal" areas, I assume they mean the face or an important part of the design on the reverse. Yes, I do agree with you there. A mark on the nose, eyes or mouth is going to have much higher adverse significance, than the same one on the neck, or in the field, for example. Even a slight ding, can alter features quite noticeably.

I don't really buy that as a logical proposition. There are two sides to a coin, and probability theory would suggest that both receive equal amount of contact marks. Contact marks would be most obvious in the clear fields of a coin. So maybe there is, as Peck suggested, a tendency to be drawn towards the head. Maybe there tends to be more area of clear field on the obverse, predominantly. Otherwise the suggestion that one side received more contact marks than the other makes zero sense.

Not really. I haven't noticed any material difference between obverse and reverse when it comes to wear. Both sides seem to suffer equally on average. You do sometimes encounter a situation, on individual coins, in which the obverse is considerably superior to the reverse and vice versa. Obverses and reverses both tend to have their high points. So no, I don't agree with your theory.

You got some detailed advice, but you never came back ~ any further thoughts ?

She was selling a whole lot of top end pennies last week and I did actually buy one, an 1865. Turned out to be an absolute cracker - virtually BU, which is extremely rare among early buns, so well pleased with my purchase, even if it did take a fair while to reach me. She is selling off her late husband's collection, and they are as you say, absolutely superb for the most part. I'm not surprised that 1881 reached the figure it did. It's a gem, notwithstanding the fault you refer to, and very hard to come by in high grade.

The one that Heritage just sold, can be seen here Very, very nice.

Just wondering what members thought about this, as it seems to me to have a fair few positives and negatives, depending on which way you view it. There's an article about it from SAGA here The main changes are that there will be a single flat rate of contributory state retirement pension, amounting in today's money to £144, as compared to the current £107. Recipents will need to have paid Class 1 or 2 National Insurance contributions, or been awarded equivalent credits for 35 years, to get the full amount, and at least 10 to get anything at all. This compares to 30 at present (but that used to be much higher than (even) 35, not that many years ago) The state second pension SP2 (serps as it used to be called), will be phased out, but those who have contributed towards it, will receive some transitional protection. Maybe the most contentious aspect of the arrangement will be the fact that existing pensioners will not receive any benefit from the new arrangements, and even more contentious will be the cliff edge approach to entitlement. Only men born on or after 6 April 1952, and women born on or after 6 July 1953, will be able to receive the higher pension. Those born before those dates, will be awarded a pension under the existing system. Women born prior to the above date of 6.7.53 will lose out more because they see their pension age rise, but lose out on the higher entitlement ~ so a double whammy for the early 50's born females. By comparison, the biggest beneficiaries will be men born between 6 April 1952 and 5 December 1953, as they get to draw the higher pension at age 65, before the threshold age rises in stages to 66, for those born after 6.12.53, and before 1955, by 2020.

Define "heat" & "cool" I would have thought it went without saying that few would store their coins adjacent to extreme sources of heat. On the other hand many would quite reasonably store them in dry conditions at room temperature between 18C & 22C, say.

Dr Ros Altman didn't explain that bit very clearly, I agree, Peck.

I simply store them in my mahogany coin cabinet in a dry, warm room. With regard to the possibility of my very high grade coins incurring toning, I figure that if I look after them reasonably well, they should not tone any further, at least not in my lifetime. After all, who knows how they've been kept since, say, 1860. If they've survived since then (152 years) without significant toning, then I'm sure they'll manage a bit longer.

Shouldn't make any difference to it, surely ? You'd still get the £144.00 irrespective of when you decide to cash in your private pension. That's what I'd have thought. Yet that article in the link was moaning on about the effect of the new scheme on private pensions? ETA: Ah no, it was talking about the present system: The other big drawback is that around 40% of pensioners are entitled to means tested Pension Credit, but if they receive this, their private pensions or earnings are penalised. Many people will find that they have wasted all their private savings. As we have just started automatically enrolling all workers in an employer pension scheme, it is vital that the state pension does not keep undermining private pensions. But this is equally difficult to understand - why should getting Pension Credit affect your personal pension? It's not that Pension Credit would affect your personal pension, it's more the other way round. Receipt of a personal pension might well affect your entitlement to Pension Credit, because it's means tested. The normal contributory state retirement pension (both old and new types) are not means tested. So you can earn or receive anything else outside of the benefits system, without it affecting your entitlement.

I have had the Mascle for a number of years now and am very pleased with it. My only (retrospective) preference would be to have had the option of an additional simple drawer-like tray, in which to put the coin tickets (either too large or square) and dealers' envelopes that came with the coins, but that don't fit into the usual round recesses with the coins. Cabinets also come up in auctions fairly regularly, but the advantage of a tailor made one is that you can specify the size of hole you want for your coins rather than just make do with what's supplied (usually a range from small to large). I've got the Mascle as well, Tom ~ but, man, those prices have gone up significantly since I bought mine in January 2010 I'm very pleased with mine too. There's more than enough space for what I've already got, and what I intend to get. As you say though, another drawer for provenance and other purchase related documents would be a good idea. For anybody thinking of buying, it might be worth asking Peter about this, although I think I may have heard that he was retiring. The address has certainly changed from St Leonards (near Hastings) to somewhere near Nottingham. Yes Mike, I think he sold up last year or late 2011. Thought so. Thanks for the confirmation John.

You're not the first, and you won't be the last, to feel the pain of correctly cataloguing pennies Is my grade correct,as not only am i struggling to id them i struggle to grade them VF looks about right, although it's not a brilliant photo.