InforaPenny

rashenley2, You have an absolutely fabulous collection... thanks for posting the link! Best Regards, InforaPenny

The halfpenny mule was illustrated in the 1984 Freeman sale catalogue, and this coin exactly corresponds to the image shown by Bernie. Best Regards, InforaPenny

The 6 of the date doesn't look right to me. It seems too narrow... Makes me wonder if is an altered date 1927? Best Regards, InforaPenny

Mr T, Freeman's survey results are published in his first book The Victorian Bronze Penny (1860-1901). The was privately published by Freeman in 1964 (and again in 1966 as a second edition, which was essentially the same). The survey covered some 50,000 circulated Victorian bronze pennies, of which 15,653 were bun pennies with readable dates. These were mostly acquired via an arrangement where Freeman went through coins collected by a Scottish bus company. This helped insure that they were a fairly random sample of coins that were in circulation before the great interest in pre-decimal pennies that started with decimalization. This is by far the largest survey conducted that I know of, and can never be repeated. This became the basis for Freeman's rarity ratings in his later books. These slim books with only about 38 pages, are scarce today. You might be able to find a copy in a library. Best Regards, InforaPenny

Freeman's survey included 433 1882-H pennies, none from the known 11+N 1882 no-H die pairing. In my own reference collection I have another 65 1882-H pennies, same story... Best Regards, InforaPenny

Fortunately a different obverse die (Obv 11) was used on the genuine no H pennies, resulting in a unique 11+M die pairing for 1882 no H pennies, making schemes for removing the H mintmark unworkable when trying to deceive knowledgeable collectors. Since Obverses 11 and 12 are easily distinguished even on very worn coins, verifying no H pennies is straightforward if you simply examine the obverse. Best Regards, InforaPenny

This coin has the wrong obverse (obv 12, not obv 11) showing that it cannot be Freeman 112 (the only verified 1882 no H type). In other words, it has the dies of the most common 1882-H suggesting that the mintmark may have been removed... Best Regards, InforaPenny

Mainly bronze pennies, also halfpennies and to a lesser extent farthings. All by variety... Best Regards, InforaPenny

My understanding is that the rarity ratings in Peck reflect how frequently he encountered coins in the various collections he examined and dealer's stock, and were not based on a more random survey (such as Freeman's). Consequently, some coins which Peck ranks as common such as the 1860 LCW below foot penny, are actually fairly rare, although being such a distinctive variety were apparently well represented in the collections he examined. Best Regards, InforaPenny

While I agree that coins have been a better investment, the 1840 Penny Black is a beautiful and iconic stamp, and one of my favorites. If you wanted to collect only one stamp, this, the world’s first stamp, would be a good choice. Since it always seems to be in demand, it should also be relatively easy to sell compared to other stamps. Best Regards, InforaPenny

I'm somewhat conflicted on this topic. As with most things in life a proper answer should probably begin with “It depends…†I agree that for the most part stamps have been a terrible investment, and the fact that Post Offices worldwide have viewed stamps as an important revenue stream for many years now has resulted in a flood of issues aimed at the collector. A similar situation for coins also seems to be emerging with the issue of numerous non-circulating-legal-tender (NCLT) coins, again aimed at the collector. The best way to deal with this situation is to have a firm “cutoff†date beyond which you will not collect. For myself, this is the end of the 1960s with decimalization. That said, as prices of the pre-decimal bronze coins to fill gaps in my collection have soared, several years ago I also began dabbling with stamp collecting again after a long hiatus. My personal favorites are early classic stamps up to the mid-1860s when stamp collecting “beganâ€, including early British line-engraved such as penny blacks and reds, twopence blues, early Brazil including “bullseye†and other numerals, Cape triangles, early Mauritius, France and Belgium. As seen in recent auctions, some early classic stamp rarities have been achieving record prices, so at least a few stamps have investment potential. However, I don’t collect for investment and only collect what I like (I avoid compulsive space filling). Fortunately, there are many very inexpensive pre-1960s stamps, and I confess that I’ve been working on a representative worldwide collection of mostly inexpensive but interesting stamps focused on the 1840-1940 era. Many of these are engraved issues, and even some of the 20th century are very attractive, such as the George V seahorses, 1935 Commonwealth silver jubilee sets, etc. While this don’t mean that my primary collecting interest has changed from pre-decimal bronze coinage, as I enter my second childhood, dabbling with collecting stamps again it is both inexpensive and enjoyable. Best Regards, InforaPenny

Nice example! I'm fortunate in having one of these also, however this 1861 halfpenny die clearly has a 6 over much higher 6, not 6/8. Best Regards, InforaPenny

... and here is the reverse of this 1911 hollow neck penny. Best Regards, InforaPenny

First, I want to pay homage to V. R. Court and his heroic survey of 20th century pre-decimal bronze pennies. The total he actually surveyed was an astounding 2,160,000 pennies, something like 40 times the number in Freeman’s bun penny survey. The effort was aided by a special arrangement with banking staff, with particular care to ensure that that the bags of coins once examined and disposed of were not returned to the survey (many going directly to the mint for re-coinage). According to Mr. Court in a July 1972 letter I’ve seen, when pennies “finally became unavailable I was really rather relievedâ€. Unfortunately, I’ve never found a copy of his halfpenny survey, which is only hinted at in his penny article. Also, here is a scan of the obverse of my 1911 hollow neck penny. Best Regards, InforaPenny

Appendix III in Freeman's book provides a correlation of Obverse and Reverse die types between Peck and his (Freeman's) notation for pennies, halfpennies and farthings on pages 201-205. Hope this helps... Best Regards, InforaPenny

There are actually two different obverse working dies that are paired with the “N over sideways N†reverse die (Gouby 1860K). The striking order of these die-linked coins can be determined from a progression of die cracks on the reverse near the 1 of 1860 and the 2nd N of PENNY. The first these obverse dies has the letter R of REG strongly doubled, and the second the letter A of VICTORIA strongly doubled (British Numismatic Journal, Volume 71, 2001, pages 174-6). From comments, including those of Bronze & Copper Collector, it appears that the 2nd die pairing may be the more common one. Best Regards, InforaPenny

Sovereigns present a significant and interesting challenge for collectors. They're historically important and when branch mint coins are included, can be quite complex. I have a few, but now wish I'd made a real effort 10-12 years ago when they were relatively affordable. Alas, the bullion price alone has pushed them out-of-reach for me. Unless you have deep pockets, I'd suggest a type set of EF-Unc coins bought as close to bullion value as possible. Best Regards and Good Luck, InforaPenny

I first got to know Michael Sharp at Baldwin’s on a rainy day in late June 1997, after stopping over in London for a few days. Baldwin’s was an amazing place in those days, especially if you had the right numismatic introductions. After we talked numismatics for a while and of my interest in bun penny varieties, with nothing of interest to me in the trays up front, Michael asked me if I would mind waiting while he took a look in the back. I was offered a cup of tea, and after what seemed to be a long wait, he emerged with another tray, clearly now containing some coins from Baldwin’s famous safe. Among these were an 1860 proof penny, and other high grade rare penny varieties listed by Peck number. I bought all I could afford, including the proof at 200 GBP (the ticket showing it had sold in 1940 for 1 pound). Others included F-17, F-79 and F-96. While I would always stop in to see Michael and talk numismatics during future trips to London, including at DNW after his move there, my 1997 visit to Baldwin’s was certainly the most memorable. He will be missed. Best Regards, InforaPenny

While my primary collecting focus is British and Australian bronze (especially die varieties of pennies), I’m also a somewhat conflicted general stamp collector, and make it a special point to visit the public display of the Tapling collection in the British Library whenever I’m in London. Personal favorites in my own modest collection include the early British line-engraved such as penny blacks and reds, twopence blues, and other early world wide classic stamps. Along the way I’ve managed to acquire a small (11 gm) hallmarked sterling silver ingot produced for the Royal Mail which is mounted in a special folder describing the penny black and showing how the original die was produced. This is apparently part of a series “The Victorian Stamp Ingot Collection†officially sold by the Royal Mail some years ago. The ingot shown by azda (which I’m not interested in) seems to have been privately produced by the Danbury Mint. Best Regards, InforaPenny

Hi David, Welcome to the forum. I don't know whether anybody has mentioned this to you yet (I know it's one of John's favourite sayings) but buy the coin not its grade. When I was collecting I would try to get the best coins I could afford but always found that when upgrading there were lower grade coins I just couldn't part with. Whether it was that I liked the patina or something about the process of acquiring them, I know not but for example in a run of George V pennies mostly with high percentages of lustre, I had a VF 1922. Not particularly difficult or expensive to find in better grade but I just liked my old '22 and didn't see the need to upgrade it. I guess in a way this kind of personalises a collection and to my mind makes it a little more interesting. So by all means start out with the intention of collecting runs of coins in very high grade but don't be surprised if what you end up with is just that little bit different. I agree. Eye appeal and finding coins that just "look right" to you are the ones to collect. Don't let someone else dictate your choices. Best Regards, InforaPenny

I'd strongly suggest buying a few lower cost, mainly circulated coins FIRST as part the process of learning about them. I would certainly avoid slabbed coins or expensive “investment†grade coins starting out. In your case, you might want to buy some low cost examples of Victorian halfpennies, pennies, perhaps farthings and a few silver coins. Hold them in your hand, and find out whether they help you “feel†history. These are the coins your ancestors would have used everyday. Obtain some kind of catalogue to help you identify the different types and learn more about these coins (even an older used one). Perhaps you’ll find a particular denomination or type especially appeals to you (in my case it was pre-decimal bronze pennies), or it may be that you like collecting a wide range of examples of different types (penny, 3d, 6d, shilling, etc.). The main thing is to discover what YOU like best. It’s even OK if you later find that collecting something other than coins is more appealing to you (stamps, books, antiques, etc.). Just don’t spend a lot of money “up front†before you find that out. Best Regards and Good Luck, InforaPenny

It definitely wasn't in C.Y.C. - that listed almost no varieties at all, except the H KN and ME (from memory). I'm not sure what the other guide is you refer to; I do have a 1968 colour booklet with prices, but it contains some terrible inaccuracies, the most notable of which is a failure to differentiate the copper and bronze issues of 1860!!! and it doesn't include the 1922. But I'm not sure the 1922 variety was widely known in the late 60s? As I say, it didn't feature in the main guides and catalogues of the time and wasn't mentioned in adverts, nor in Coin Monthly articles. I'm absolutely certain it was listed in the other small pocket-sized price guide from the late 60s-early70s. Someone must remember it? The colour of the cover changed each year. I had an old copy until a few years ago but unfortunately had a clear out and it went I'm a bit of a student of coin prices and price guides from the 60s onwards. If you should find out what this other guide was, I'd love to know. (You're not thinking of COINS & MARKET VALUES, are you? That was an A5 size booklet with a glossy cover, published by Link House - it was once the COINS & MEDALS annual, but became an independent guide possibly in the early 70s. That came out each year, and its prices were always quite modest compared to Seaby/Spink.) If only I'd not thrown them away! This guide was slightly smaller than Check Your Change and about the same thickness. It was cheaper as only a single volume was needed, unlike CYC. I'm sure it was available in WH Smith. The two I owned had yellow and aquamarine covers with full colour coin photos on the front, but were monochrome inside. I had a feeling the name started with 'Know', as in Know your... money, change, coins, or whatever, though I may be wrong. Curioser and curioser. You could barely get smaller than CYC which was tiny! It must have been small indeed. But I'm intrigued to know it included the 1922 rarity - I'm almost tempted to wonder if the guide was put together by someone who actually had one and wanted to give it more publicity? As I say, I don't recall ANY of the late 60s guides featuring it. The 1970 Coins & Medals Annual had a "Varieties since 1816" survey - pretty comprehensive on the basis of what was known at that time (i.e., the 1915 "close TT" farthing isn't there, nor the 1923 florin, nor - in spite of 4 varieties that are included - is the 1921 shilling with the pre-1920 obverse; on the other hand there are FOUR varieties of 1957 calm sea halfpenny). The 1922 penny is not in that survey; if it had been known in 1970 it most certainly would have been. You are very likely correct about the inclusion of the 1922, due to the writer having found one! It appeared in VR Court's survey of 1972 (though he didn't find one) so was certainly known about then. I can actually picture the guide, which was genuinely pocket sized, a little taller, but narrower than a beermat. I've googled, but to no avail. Someone must remember? That's great! It ties its discovery down to between 1970 and 1972. That's progress. The first published reference I’m aware of for the 1922 rev of 1927 type penny is in David Sealy’s “Coin Varieties†column in the January 1970 issue of Coins, pages 32-33. Hope this helps! Best Regards, InforaPenny

Rob, I stand corrected. There was an 1878 narrow date halfpenny. Like you, my interest is mainly on scarcer varieties, such as the 1878 wide date, which must exist in high grade based on the photo in Freeman’s book. I feel fortunate to have an example in good fine/near VF. The catalogue from the Freeman sale, lists his as extremely fine, sold with EF examples of the other two 1878 varieties for 594 GBP. Best Regards, InforaPenny

Although my collecting focus on British pre-decimal bronze is primarily on varieties, it was interesting to look at the auction listings for this recent Spink sale, which was mainly a high grade date/mintmark set of the pre-decimal bronze. Here, the gaps in this otherwise very nice and nearly complete collection seemed to jump out at me. For the bun coinage, the “missing†pennies included the 1864, 1869, 1872, 1875-H and 1880, halfpennies lacked examples of the 1878 and 1881, and the farthings appeared to be missing the 1876-H and 1883. Several possibilities occur to me. One is that suitable examples of these coins were unavailable and never acquired for this collection, or they may have been sold off privately to another collector friend before the sale. Any thoughts? Best Regards, InforaPenny