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Posts posted by Bronze & Copper Collector
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23 minutes ago, Madness said:Even people who are trustworthy make mistakes. I need to learn more about grading. Much more practice needed!
Even the TPGs are far from perfect.... And you're PAYING for it....
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The Ultimate in specialization...
Seriously though, there is nothing mad about a project like this. Early American coinage from half cents to gold has been broken down to various dies and combinations thereof. Books have been published on the various denominations that have become the definitive works on the subject.
I, for one, wish you the best on this project and can only hope it can be completed and possibly published.....
Much as I would hope that Richard would consider publishing his website as an invaluable reference book. The next incarnation of a long line of respected references....
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21 minutes ago, Madness said:Well, my coin collection has officially started, if in fact two coins constitute a collection. Both of these was purchased from Michael Gouby. The 1787 shilling is a thing of beauty, graded by Michael as EF+. A faint scratch on the obverse prevented him from selling it as "practically as struck". This is the less common variety without the stop of George III's head.
The second coin is a 1787 sixpence in EF? condition. It's obviously less visually-appealing than the shilling, but has an interesting flaw that I might bring up in another thread. Certainly worth having, at least for me.
I was tempted to throw in the towel after my first experience, but I'm now officially hooked. Off to look at auction offerings! I've got some spare money from the guinea sale burning a hole in my pocket.
In that case, "Welcome to the asylum"...
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7 hours ago, jelida said:I’m far from convinced that in Lukasz’s case it is actually a mistake........
Jerry
I find him to be ever the optimist.....
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9 hours ago, Rob said:It might be a TB/BB mule if you send it to PCGS. Those of us a bit longer in the tooth on this forum will remember they have past form with this attribution.
Indeed we do....
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You will find that the essential standards as enumerated in the book are applicable to any coin being evaluated.....
What this book (or any specialized grading guide) does, is list specific points to look at when grading a specific coin. The essentials, as I stated earlier, are applicable to any coin....
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A good library is behind every successful collector....
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It's a one of a kind reference that should be in your library..
The prevalent advice of buying the book before the coin is most certainly applicable here.... you HAVE the book already, why give it away when you might need to refer to it next week....
No on knows for sure, but I could cite numerous instances when I have disposed of something and needed it shortly after... I'm not saying to keep everything and throw nothing away. items that can easily be replaced or accessed can be disposed of, but something as small and as useful as this book should be kept..
Casee in point, although most US collectors use TPG's, the tpg's use as a basis the standards set forth in the guidebook grading US coins. The information contained within that book, as well as your book in question, can be extrapolated to apply to coins not covered in the guide...
I respect my references no matter how rarely I access them, as I know they. are an invaluable source of information......
Although I use Peck I sometimes need to refer to Bramah for further information.. I have Batty, use it rarely, but I like to know it is there if needed....
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22 minutes ago, Rob said:I think we are all agreed regarding definition 4 posted by BCC - '4. a coin with the obverse and reverse of designs not originally intended to be used together.' The difficulty seems to lie with the interpretation of intent.
It can be said that the very act of placing a die in the press indicates intent by definition of the word intent...
The crux of the issue is whether the original intended use of the die was how the die was ultimately used and whether that is the only determination that should be considered as well as how much latitude should be acceptable in making that determination..
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Swinging On A Star Lyrics
Would you like to swing on a star?
Carry moonbeams home in a jar?
And be better off than you are?
Or would you rather be a mule?A mule is an animal with long, funny ears
He kicks up at anything he hears
His back is brawny and his brain is weak
He's just plain stupid with a stubborn streak
And, by the way, if you hate to go to school
You may grow up to be a mule
Or would you like to swing on a star?
Carry moonbeams home in a jar?
And be better off than you are?
Or would you rather be a pig?A pig is an animal with dirt on his face
His shoes are a terrible disgrace
He's got no manners when he eats his food
He's fat and lazy and extremely rude
But if you don't care a feather or a fig
You may grow up to be a pig[instrumental-first 3 lines of chorus]
Or would you rather be a fish?A fish won't do anything but swim in a brook
He can't write his name or read a book
To fool all the people is his only thought
Though he's slippery, he still gets caught
But then if that sort of life is what you wish
You may grow up to be a fishAnd all the monkeys aren't in a zoo
Every day you meet quite a few
So you see, it's all up to you
You can be better than you areYou could be swingin' on a star
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Very true, read definition 1......
mule1/myo͞ol/
noun1. the offspring of a donkey and a horse (strictly, a male donkey and a female horse), typically sterile and used as a beast of burden.
2. a hybrid plant or animal, especially a sterile one.
3. a kind of spinning machine producing yarn on spindles, invented by Samuel Crompton (1753–1827) in 1779.
4. a coin with the obverse and reverse of designs not originally intended to be used together. -
Or the recent USA dollar coins with the 25 cent obverse???
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1 hour ago, secret santa said:I don't think I agree with this - the 1966 Jersey obversed penny ( a quintessential mule in my view) has what I assume (what was still) a current Jersey obverse (tho' I may be wrong)
What about the 1967 New Zealand 2c Bahama Islands 5c Mule???
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1 minute ago, Rob said:Many patterns could be described as fantasy pieces, with designs that tend to be more intricate with finer detail, which is not helpful when it comes to striking a 100K coins from a die pair. Currency coinage production requires a simplified design that won't clog up.
It's much easier to let sleeping dogs lie and say each to their own, coz you sure as hell won't come to any agreement.
Amen To that.....
A Rose is a Rose is a Rose..... by any name....
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I suppose anything NOT issued by the mint, or issued WITHOUT official mint authorization could be considered a fantasy piece, although several such striking have entered the mainstream and/or become legendary. ....
Thinking USA, the 1913 Liberty Nickel for one, was never an official striking..
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1 hour ago, Peckris 2 said:Good point ... but didn't Taylor do some pattern restrikes that were mules in the sense that he paired obverse and reverse dies had never before been paired?
Wouldn't those be better categorized as Fantasy pieces....
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1 hour ago, mrbadexample said:Can't tell for sure, but depending upon the date, I would suspect that they are 2 variants of the same reverse. .. G
Read note 4 regarding reverse G in the article. . Some reverse G's are missing rocks to the left of the lighthouse, mainly from 1861 to 1863.
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58 minutes ago, Bernie said:It is difficult or even impossible to prove whether a die pairing was intentional or not. In my opinion coins such as BB/TB, TB/BB and 1862 2 & 3+G are not truly mules as they were possibly struck deliberately. A true mule in my mind is something like the 1966 Jersey obverse with British penny reverse.
Although the status of the 1860 & 1862 coins could be debated ad naseum (depending upon how mule-headed the debaters are) there is no doubt that the Jamaican obverse penny is a mule by any definition of the term.
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1 hour ago, mrbadexample said:Thanks all.
I've been using Richard's site (https://headsntails14.wordpress.com) for pennies, and one thing I notice is that he makes good use of letter and colon pointings to gaps / teeth etc. This can be really helpful with worn specimens. Freeman doesn't seem to note these very often.
I am frequently impressed by our penny collectors' ability to identify washers. Somehow I suspect halfpennies are a lot more difficult.
An excellent reference for halfpennies is Iain Dracott's article on Victorian bronze halfpennies as well as Malcolm Lewendon's cd with images based upon the Dracott article....
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28 minutes ago, Bernie said:Another obverse 7 with reverse G
I concur... f-282
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8 hours ago, davidrj said:You want us to stop talking about pennies!!!!! ?
SACRILEGE!!!!!!!!
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16 minutes ago, Rob said:Never mind. A valiant attempt to reach 1000 posts.
LOL ..... not even on my mind, I'll get there eventually. ....... maybe before my 15th anniversary here in August 2020.......
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Sorry about the duplicate postings, I was not getting a submitted message, just the same button to submit the message....
If a moderator could remove the duplicate posts, I (as well as everyone else) would appreciate it...
Thank you....
Is this an 1865/3 Half Penny
in Forum technical help and support
Posted · Edited by Bronze & Copper Collector
1865/3 halfpenny 5 over large 3