Bronze & Copper Collector

The coin in question has been returned.... and a full refund issued.... We will be informed of future developments in the investigation of what this actually is.... I'd like to thank everyone for their input and commend the seller for his integrity and forthrightness in this transaction.......

Latest Update.... I have been in conversation with both the seller and the owner of the coin, and it has been shipped back to him today..... Amongst the reasons given for my doubt were the following..... 1: The rock formation to the left of the lighthouse is as on the toothed border, not as on the beaded border.... 2: The Beads (?) are closer to the rim than on beaded border, very much like a toothed border.... touching in some areas, indicative od a toothed border........ 3: The Beads (?) seem a trifle thicker that beads, more like teeth...... 4: The 0 in 1860 is touching the linear circle, which it does not do in any known specimen of the mule..... 5: It appears to be an obverse 3, not am obverse 2.... The owner will do further investigation and follow-up studies on the coin, and will keep us informed of the progress and any ultimate determination.....

I know that there is also an unrecorded mule variety with obverse 3, but this is on obverse 2, so speculation on the matter of that die combination is moot....

Here is an email that I just sent to the seller regarding the coin.... HI Mark,, As per our conversation,, I am attaching the 2400 DPI scans of the coin, as well as images of my current specimen of the mule, along with the images of a toothed and beaded border reverses that I had sent to you last week..... As I told you, although there are areas of the border that look like beads, there are also areas that look like teeth, and the slab itself is preventing closer examination.... Anyway, these are the prinicipal points of doubt (and there may be more)... 1: The rock formation to the left of the lighthouse is as on the toothed border, not as on the beaded border.... 2: The Beads (?) are closer to the rim than on beaded border, very much like a toothed border.... touching in some areas, indicative od a toothed border........ 3: The Beads (?) seem a trifle thicker that beads, more like teeth...... 4: The 0 in 1860 is touching the linear circle, which it does not do in any known specimen of the mule..... Just from examining these points, I am very hesitant to absolutely conclude that this is a mule, although I find it somewhat difficult to believe that PCGS would get something as simple as this attribution incorrect.... but that may be exactly what happened.... And the only way to be absolutely sure is to crack it out of the slab, which I don't want to do at this point, especially if it has been mis-attributed and we need to get PCGS involved.... Regards, Gary

I should also add that the color is MUCH nicer in reality.. the scanner does NOT do it justice... Lots of red... not dull as scanned.....

Hello Everyone.... The coin in question arrived today... VERY FAST SHIPPING..... I believe it to be the MULE FARTHING... It is virtually impossible to get a decent angle to take a photograph, but I did scan it at 2400 DPI.... I posted the image on a websote and have links to it here... REVERSE OBVERSE The images are LARGE in size, but if you study the reverse, you CAN see the beads of the border very clearly at certain points...... I'd like to hear comments from the forum regarding the coin though....

The coin has been shipped to me today.... I should receive it towards the end of the week.... I'll let you know the result once I receive the coin......

I'm pleased that you found this forum and have made this statement, as it makes me feel even more at ease in this transaction, especially should the coin turn out to have been mis-attributed, and I have to return it to you.... I will let the forum know the outcome in either instance... I'm sure, in either scenario, the forum members will have no trepidation in bidding on your items in the future, since you have been so forthright about this item, with your assessment and return guarantee.... Also, speaking for myself and the forum, since I have met your father in the past... We all wish him well.... I'm pleased that you found the forum and made this post here, as it may allay some of the questions that have arisen over this coin, and has also provided me with a little more piece of mind, should the coin turn out to have been mis-attributed, and I have to ask for a refund.... I'm also sure, that in either instance.. and I will let the forum know the outcome.... there will be no trepidation to purchase from you in the future.... Speaking for myself and the forum, as I have met him in the past... We all wish him well ......

That's me..... I know that there has been a question as to whether this was mis-attributed.. The seller did send me new pics, which did look like RB's... I send him images of both and he says it is like the RB reverse..... I know of his father, whose collection/stock this is from.... He said that he will guarantee the coin with a return privilege.... I will make sure to put that into the paypal payment to cover myself...... and hope that I won't have any problems......

I now have an F-479.... The offer still stands on the others...... I have now acquired a specimen of the 1970 obverse 3 reverse K half penny (see attached)... Still looking for both 1970's with reverse I....... As I now have both obverse varieties of the 1970, I will offer $50 each for the FIRST specimen of obverse 3, and obverse 4 PAIRED with REVERSE I.... Also, $50 for a circulated example of a 1911 half penny with Gouby Obverse A & Reverse B..... will pay more for an EF or better specimen...... HAPPY HUNTING!!!!

If you're for real, come on in, register, and join in the mayhem.....

I now have an F-479.... The offer still stands on the others......

wishful thinking....

Does anyone have any catalogs, references, or other information, listing specific varieties and dates, of the silver and copper Birmingham Workhouse Tokens of 1811-1814.....that can scan the pertinent pages, and email them to me.... Thanks ....

£100,000 winner here... was between 5p and £100,000... tempting offer, took the chance and won.... If there's a payoff, I'd settle for £10,000 face value in EF or Better, 1860 and 1861 half pennies and half pennies... 10p on the pound..... But worth it for the fun I'll have in sorting the varieties...

I know nothing of the I to bead or I to gap.... I've only used the D in Dei as a guide..... and the difference is quite apparent when you compare them that way.....

The simplest method to distinguish between the 2 varieties is that on the more common variety, the D in DEI points to a border bead... On the scarcer variety, the D in DEI points BETWEEN 2 border beads...... This specimen is only the 4th that I can think of that I have seen...... I've been searching for one for about 3 years now..... I'm sure it is not THAT scarce, but most collectors are not aware of the variety, and therefore don't give an otherwise VERY COMMON coin a second look.... Since it has now been brought out in the open, and since many of you will now search for a specimen... I'll sweeten the pot as I still need a specimen myself.... I'll offer $75 for the first uncirculated example that is offered for sale to me, or $45 for the first circulated example offered for sale to me.... As I only need ONE specimen, AND as the coin may not turn out to be scarce at all, I will not pay that much for a second specimen.... Anyway, this should stir things up a bit...... I also need a specimen with the wider ship/rim, although Michael Gouby doesn't seem to recognize it's existance... and will make the same offer for this coin too.... I'll offer $75 for the first uncirculated example that is offered for sale to me, or $45 for the first circulated example offered for sale to me.... As I only need ONE specimen, AND as the coin may not turn out to be scarce at all, I will not pay that much for a second specimen.... Anyway, this should stir things up a bit...... I also need a proven specimen of F-479... which also may or may not exist, as well as a 1911, Gouby Obverse A, Reverse B... Contact me by PM, if you need to get in touch with me, and I'll give you my email address.... (several of you already are aware of who I am...) Thanks... PS: A HAPPY AND HEALTHY HOLIDAY SEASON TO ALL...... AND HAPPY HUNTING AS WELL.....

Here you go..... CLOSED 3 with a curved down top & a ball end foot .... center bar points down to ball. OPEN 3 less curved top & bottom loops .... no ball at end of foot center bar points along centre line. Thanks Bronze and Copper collector, Once again you have been most helpful, would I be able to use these pictures for reference on my new up (currently in build) website? If so what shall I put bellow the pictures/ Courtesy of "............" ? Regards, Hus Use whatever you need..... Let me know if you need anything else that I might have..... Pictures that is.. not the coins themselves... LOL!!!

Here you go..... CLOSED 3 with a curved down top & a ball end foot .... center bar points down to ball. OPEN 3 less curved top & bottom loops .... no ball at end of foot center bar points along centre line.

It's the uninformed selling to the ignorant.... see this ebay listing..... Item number: 300061214231 http://cgi.ebay.com/VICTORIA-ONE-PENNY-MOD...1QQcmdZViewItem

Does anyone have a list of the different varities and variations of the Birmingham Workhouse Tokens??? Thanks

I just picked up a specimen myself as a adjunct to my Copper & Bronze Collection..... I have the 3p and the 1p both dateed 1813, and am waiting for a 1p dated 1814...... Offhand, do you have a list of the denominations and dates that each were made???? Thanks

My area is primarily Bronze and copper.... I have many of the rarer varieties, granted not all in high grade, but if you need images for display, just let me know what you need......

Bottom line is... a price guide is only that.. a "GUIDE"..... Demand and the individual coin, will determine its final selling price.......

Looks like a split planchet, that is starting to separate......