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Everything posted by Bronze & Copper Collector
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Re: 1860 Mule Farthing
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to Colin G.'s topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
I really did not want to weigh in anymore on this subject inasmuch as my purchasing and returning the coin speaks for itself..... However, I think some of the focus is being lost, although Bob C. (RLC35) has made an attempt to place this subject back on track.... The question is, as I see it, "Is the coin an Mule (TB/BB) or not... As the Royal Mint used ONLY Round Beaded Border reverse or Toothed Beaded Border reverse, and at NO time ever used a PARTIALLY BEADED BORDER reverse, the question to be answered is which variety this is.... Creating a NEW name of a reverse to address a specific situation does NOT resolve this question. Calling a duck a swan, does not make it so. In the interest of full disclosure, I believe there has been a recent discovery of a Mule (TB/BB) struck with an Obverse 3 die (instead of the documented Obverse 2), but with the same Reverse A... As the question regarding THIS coin involves the REVERSE, the subject is moot. This coin needs to be examined without the slab, by someone who specializes in this subject, and whose expertise is uninmpeachable. (Michael Freeman has been suggested, and as a impartial observer whose book is considered the BIBLE of Bronze coinage, is an excellent choice), If indeed, after the coin is examined, the determination is that the coin IS a mule, as PCGS has certified on two occasions, then the coin MUST be accepted as such by all, with apologies in order to the OWNER/SELLER and to PCGS..... More importantly, to both the current owner and/or any potential buyer; should, after EXPERT examination, the determination be that the coin is NOT the certified variety; WILL PCGS GUARANTEE THE COIN AND PURCHASE IT BACK????? If PCGS stands by its current assessment of the coin (certified as a MULE TB/BB) and an interested party purchases the coin and has it examined by ACKNOWLEDGED & RESPECTED EXPERTS (such as Michael Freeman, the staff of Colin Cooke, the British Museum, the Royal Mint, etc), and their determination is that the coin is NOT the certified variety; WILL PCGS GUARANTEE THE COIN AND PURCHASE IT BACK????? It all boils down to whether PCGS will guarantee 100% that this coin IS a TB/BB mule, or will PCGS attempt to create a NEW variety, "Toothed / PARTIAL Beaded Border", a variety that does not exist and was never struck, to explain something that is most likely merely the result of as worn die...... A decision that would be viewed as a "cop-out" or evading the issue by most collectors, and would not instill confidence in the numismatic community. Another question arises as a result of the dispute regarding this coin. Inasmuch as a severe doubt has been placed upon the accuracy of this certification and has therefore hindered the sale of an EXTREMELY RARE COIN IN EXCEPTIONALLY CHOICE CONDITION: Will PCGS arrange for an EXPERT ( or EXPERTS), knowledgeable in this series, impartial to the controversy, whose determination would be unimpeachable, to examine this coin, outside of the slab, AND to accept his/her/their decision as absolute??? And, should that determination be that the coin is NOT as certified, will PCGS stand by its GUARANTEE and purchase the coin back from the owner at its fair market value??? Or will PCGS stand behind its Grade Designation (not in question or disputed) and claim that the INCORRECT VARIETY designation was a "Clerical Error"??? Another decision that would be viewed as a "cop-out" and would not instill confidence in the numismatic community. At this juncture, I believe the time is right and the neccessity exists for PCGS to state, in public, in UNEQUIVOCAL and UNAMBIGUOUS terms, exactly what its guarantee is regarding this coin, so as to provide, ANY and ALL, past, present, and future owners of this coin the peace of mind that their investment in a RARE coin is secure as to designation...... -
New Purchase
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to Hussulo's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
An IMPRESSIVE error..... -
Normal 1862.....
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1861 halfpenny 1 over lower 1 in date?
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to Coins4u's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
It looks like an F-282 7 & G ... the most common of the 1861's, and damaged.... not too much value in it..... -
1861 halfpenny 1 over lower 1 in date?
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to Coins4u's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
These are consider minor varieties compared with something that I just posted in confirmed unrecorded varieties... An 1861 Half Penny, Obverse 6, Reverse F, unrecorded in Freeman, although acknowledged by Iain Dracott.... Link to Thread -
1861 Half-Penny - Obverse 6, Reverse F
Bronze & Copper Collector posted a topic in Confirmed unlisted Varieties.
Here is a specimen of an 1861 Half-Penny, Obverse 6, Reverse F... Unrecorded in Freeman, ackowledged by Iain Dracott as having only known of one specimen.... Here is confirmation..... Double incuse lines and more of the O of HONI SO visible...... The coin is Red-Brown... Digital images reflected off the slab. so I had to scan it for the best detail, although it dulls the color a bit... -
1861 halfpenny 1 over lower 1 in date?
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to Coins4u's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Thank You..... -
1861 halfpenny 1 over lower 1 in date?
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to Coins4u's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
1861 1/1 F-276 6 & E First 1 over higher 1 1861 1/1 F-279 7 & F Last 1 over Lower 1 1861 1/1 F-277 6 & G First 1 over higher 1 1861 1/1 F-282 7 & G Last 1 over HIGHER 1 1861 1-1 F-282 7 & G 1 beside 2nd 1 (Specimen 1) Each of these are different 1861 1-1 F-282 7 & G 1 beside 2nd 1 (Specimen 2) Each of these are different 1861 1-1 F-282 7 & G 1 beside 2nd 1 (Specimen 3) Each of these are different -
1861 halfpenny 1 over lower 1 in date?
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to Coins4u's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
These are the different 1/1's that I have.... I also have some 6/6's etc..... I can probably find images of these when I get the chance.... 1861 1/1 F-276 6 & E First 1 over higher 1 1861 1/1 F-277 6 & G First 1 over higher 1 1861 1/1 F-279 7 & F Last 1 over Lower 1 1861 1/1 F-282 7 & G Last 1 over HIGHER 1 1861 1/1 F-282 7 & G Last 1 over LOWER 1 1861 1-1 F-282 7 & G 1 beside 2nd 1 (Specimen 1) Each of these are different 1861 1-1 F-282 7 & G 1 beside 2nd 1 (Specimen 2) Each of these are different 1861 1-1 F-282 7 & G 1 beside 2nd 1 (Specimen 3) Each of these are different -
1861 halfpenny 1 over lower 1 in date?
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to Coins4u's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
I know of an F-282 1 over lower 1........ several other 1/1's also, first 1, last 1, depends on the variety..... I can post a list of what I have when I get in front of my desktop..... -
Re: 1860 Mule Farthing
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to Colin G.'s topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
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Re: 1860 Mule Farthing
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to Colin G.'s topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Update on the coin in question: I received a phone call from the owner of the coin today.... They received the coin back from PCGS after having resubmitting it for reevaluation of the attribution. PCGS CONFIRMED their original attribution of this coin and maintains that this coin IS a TB/BB MULE. Although many users of this forum disagree with this attribution, including myself, I am the only one who has actually viewed the coin and is most qualified to speak against it. It is the owners position that he took the necessary steps to correct a possible error on PCGS's part, and was very gracious in accepting the criticism heaped upon the coin. I can not and do not disagree with this. I therefore understand and accept the owners request that, when the coin is relisted at auction, since he did take the necessary corrective action, that NO more disparaging comments be made in OPEN forum regarding this coin. Also that any such acts of posting in an OPEN forum and belittling the coin will be treated as slanderous statements and will be reported to the proper authorities.... At this point he feels that any comments made against the coin should be directed toward PCGS, who at this juncture, have now examined the coin twice and arrived at the same conclusion.. As for myself, I am just posting this to keep the forum members abreast of the latest news in this saga. I did purchase the coin and return it as I was not convinced of the attribution, am content that the seller more than extended himself in sending it back to PCGS, and believe that the onus is now upon PCGS to make things right if it should ultimately prove that we were correct. -
1876 H Thick Flan Half Penny F327
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to Hussulo's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Excellent idea.... He can refer to his original notes..... -
1876 H Thick Flan Half Penny F327
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to Hussulo's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Footnote 11 in Freeman, lists the thickness as 2.25 mm..... No weight given..... -
1876 H Thick Flan Half Penny F327
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to Hussulo's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Freeman lists the thick planchet as 2.25 mm thick.... (Maybe I passed on a good buy???.. It happens)..... -
1876 H Thick Flan Half Penny F327
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to Hussulo's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
HI Hussulo, I had watched the coin on ebay but had my doubts..... I had meant to email you about the coin to see whether it WAS a thick planchet...... Please keep me posted...... -
Penny Rarity - Why is the 1882 London Mint Issue not more celebrated?
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to E Dawson's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
With the following information, you can easily prove that a specimen is NOT a true NO H, or, with a bit more research, prove that one is an F-112....... Quoted from Tony Clayton's very informative website...... http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/penny.html (My comment: it would help to have both obverses to compare as you relate to the information below........ Both reverses too, if you're not familiar with those either) "The 1882 penny without mintmark is particularly rare (and not in Peck), but watch for worn coins where the mintmark has been worn away. A variety with the bar missing from the H is known. The following is a description of how to tell a genuine 1882 no H from an 1882H penny, as kindly related by the Penny specialist Bernie: The identifiable features of the genuine non "H" 1882 penny are a flat shield on the reverse, NOT convex. Victoria has an apparent hooked nose, caused by a weak die strike in the area of the eyeball. The "R" and the "I" in "BRITT" should not be joined; a very small space should be visible with a magnifier. There is a tuft of hair protruding from the back of the neck, left of the ribbon knot. This tuft of hair is always visible on very worn specimens. The "H" variety can be clarified by examining the space encapsulated by the inner ribbon, as if the uppermost section forms a point in this triangulated section, then it is the common variety. The rare non "H" does not terminate in a point because of the tuft of hair mentioned above. I should add that there are two types of obverse and reverse for 1882H pennies, and that the 1882 No H penny has the less common types - having these characteristics does not ensure that it is a No H, but having the characteristics of the other types confirms that there was an H even if worn away. " -
Penny Rarity - Why is the 1882 London Mint Issue not more celebrated?
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to E Dawson's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Possibly also because any purported 1882 NO H (F-112) pennies are NOT.... I believe 2 were sold recently.... I have EXTREME doubts about the one, and am not convinced on the other........ Mine is well worn (and acquired from an unimpeachable source), yet identifiable using the diagnostics listed on Tony Clayton's website.... (an explanation of what to look for from Freeman & Gouby, which can easily eliminate the "pretenders" and help confirm genuine specimens.....) a few years back, a major auction firm sold a purported 1882 no H that even the consignor did not believe to be that variety and when I requested and examined images, it was obvious it was NOT an F-112..... Potential buyers may be VERY hesitant to purchase a coin in low grade for a large amount of money, regardless of how rare it is, because they are not sure that it is that variety....... Despite the results of the Bamford sale, I'm sure that if a SUPERB QUALITY specimen became available, it would command the premium that it deserves (relative to the series, not in comparison to the same rarity in US coins.... an issue that enables to to own many of the classic rarities in the Bronze series, and is slowly resolving itself) -
Question about 1861 Halfpenny, 6 over 8
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to wybrit's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Just the pictures of the 6/6 that I posted on CU....... As I said, to the best of my knowlege, the 6/8 is actually a 6 over higher 6....... which looks similar to the 6/8 F-30 penny, but is not the same....... -
For the Farthing specialists...... Link to Auction
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According to Iain Dracott's definitive article on Victorian Bunhead HalfPennies.... He mentions for 1870, 1871, and 1873, that "some have wider dates"........
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Grading Questions
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to a topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
It just occurred to me that there may be a reason for this coin being fairly common in low grade but pretty rare in say EF and above. Quite simply, a new coinage was launched in 1860 and many people who were not naturally coin collectors put examples aside. Given that this variety would in all probability not have hit the streets until 1861, most 'keepsake' coins would already have been happily sitting in drawers. It is also extremely unlikely that collectors of the time were that interested in such esoteric varieties, and hence F17 became quite scarce in the higher grades. -
Grading Questions
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to a topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Off the top of my head, I think I have somewhere between 5-8 of them... not counting another 8 or so that I have disposed of already...... MOSTLY LOW GRADE THOUGH... The F-17 in higher grades are very difficult to find and command a large premium...... -
Re: 1860 Mule Farthing
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to Colin G.'s topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Yes... The son definitely follows in his father's footsteps.... He was a highly respected coin dealer when he was in business -
Re: 1860 Mule Farthing
Bronze & Copper Collector replied to Colin G.'s topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
The coin in question has been returned.... and a full refund issued.... We will be informed of future developments in the investigation of what this actually is.... I'd like to thank everyone for their input and commend the seller for his integrity and forthrightness in this transaction.......