Stechlin

Just thought about selling this 1887 Sixpence "withdrawn type", when I recognized that strange "R" in "Victoria" on the Obverse. Hope, the picture is good enough to see what I mean. What do you think about it? Holger

Here is a picture of the whole obverse.

I'm managing my coins with an Excel spreadsheet as Marc does. Although I use less fields he does (for example the "mintage" field), because I can find these informations easily in the catalogues, when I need them its an awful lot of work and I'm not satiesfied, because its very difficult to fit pictures in an Excel spreadsheet. What about the compabiltity with the operating system of the PC? This is changing quite rapidly. I've got 2 computers at home, one running with Windows XP the other running with Vista. Lots of my XP-software does not run with Vista. And Microsoft is already planning a new operating system. I'm afraid nobody can guarentee coin software updates for those always changing operating systems. And perhaps over night all the work is useless. This seems to be an advantage of a simple Excel spreadsheet. Opinions? Holger

Somebody in this forum prepares a book about grading. Unfortunately I've forgotten who it is. But nobody needs this book. Just trust the ebay sellers! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1848-7-OTPenny-About...A1%7C240%3A1318 Stechlin

Puh, thats a difficult thing and I'm afraid my answer is not very helpful. Well, there is a UNESCO treaty dating from 1970. You can find the text of this treaty in English language under: http://frei.bundesgesetzblatt.de/pdf/bgbl2/bgbl207s0626.pdf All partners of this treaty have declared their duty to return valuable culture assets, which had brought from one treaty state to another treaty state against the law, back to state of origin. This treaty was very important especially for Germany, if you look at all the cultural assets, that has been robbed by Nazis during World War II and the other way round after Germany has lost this war. This treaty has to be transferred in national law, but Germany refused to do so for 35 years for political reasons. But now Germany has changed its mind and made a new law, called the "Kulturgüterrückgabegesetzâ€. In German language: http://www.justlaw.de/gesetze/Kulturgueter...ltGueRueckG.htm This is German law since February 2008. Easily said, this law enables foreign countries to claim the restitution of their stolen or robbed valuable cultural assets, if those items are located in Germany now. Private Owners have to hand over these items to the German authorities. In general, they have the right to claim a compensation (of course not, if they knew, that the item was stolen before or if they are thiefs themselves). Speculations: It might have taken some time from February 2008 up to date, until the several federal states have organized their authorities to start searching for such items. But now they seem to do it with the typical german closeness. The thing that whole collections are being confiscated has perhaps the reason, that the members of staff don’t have any idea whether a special coin is one of those to return or not. So they take the whole collection and will return the “uncritical†items after having checked them from experts to the owner. I’m afraid they are allowed to do so. I don’t think that collectors of especially UK coins are much involved in this game because I don’t think that many stolen British coins are located in Germany. Luckily the Nazis could not manage to send ground troops in the UK (as far as I know). I can`t guarantee for the correctness of everything I wrote above, but I hope its close to the truth. Holger (for Chris: Stechlin)

Hi Bob, Hi John Thank you very much and sorry for my late answer. Amazing that Bob owns exactely this "variety". Thanks for the great pictures. I had a look at Michael Goubys website (should have done before posting) and indeed this variety is listed under the name: "CP 1858 Ha". John, your explanation for the lots over recuts/overstrikes in the year 1858 is very interesting. But using old dies to finish that year instead of creating expensive new ones would mean, that the decision to change from Copper to Bronze has already been made at that time, wouldn't it? Or did I misunderstand you? Only a few thousand of 1858 Pennies had to been made at the end of the year, so old dies have been used to finish this year of mintage. Something like that? Of course I at once had a look at my 1858 Pennies to find the "Large Rose" and of course I didn't find one S.y.s. Holger

Hi What do you think of this 1858 Penny? – In general it is an OT, far colon variety with no w.w. on truncation, so the most common 1858 Penny. But if you look at the “1†in the date, it seems to be a large “1†over a small “1â€. I’m not sure about the first “8†the picture is a bit unsharp in this region. The “5†looks to me like a kind of an overstruck too, look at the left side of the upper region of the “5†and at the northeastern line ending earlier (I hope you know what I mean). The second “8†seems regular to me. Looking at Chris catalogue and Peck I think it is of course nor the P1517 (smaller date) neither the P1518 (large date). But in the end it also doesn’t look like a complete large date over small date which is listed in Chris catalogue. Holger

Hi! What a great forum that is!! All the last statements were so nice and interesting. My English is not good enough to read between the lines, but when I read Johns last post, I had the impression a special idea was already born. As John said, 1825-1860 Coppers (Pennies, Halfpennies and Farthings) has been a neglected area of numismatics. Right he is, and a new book in that area would find its buyers. I think all of you have seen the offer for that beautiful 1859/1860 Copper Penny on ebay about two or three weeks ago. I thought about that offer very seriously, but then decided not to bid, just to expensive for me. A few weeks earlier I would have bidden (some of you might remember my post in the members area). Same thing to the still offered 1839 Proof Penny. Not strucked for currency, so I give it up. I’ve changed my mind. I have a complete date runner set of the Bronze Pennies from 1860 to 1901 (indeed up to 1970 - O.K. not the 1933 Penny, haha - I will sell those later), quite a few examples of the most interesting 1860 and 1861 Pennies and lots of “doubles†of the other years of mintage. I’ve been waiting for more than a year now for the new edition of Michael Goubys Penny book concerning those years (look at his homepage), but I will give up this too and will start to check my Bronze Pennies with the literature I already have. Peck and Freemans books are absolutely great, only the pictures could be better, that’s the reason I waited for Mr. Goubys book. In fact I will start with Chris` book. - And the help of the forum of course! After that I will check my Copper Pennies once again with the help of the new book from John and Colin “The Victorian Copper Coinage†or "The Copper Coinage of Great Britain from 1825 to 1860" and try to complete my collection. After that I will complete my small Silver Penny collection. After that … No, I don’t want to get that old. See you soon Holger

Hi! Nobody has answered to my question concerning my 1850 Farthing. I can imagine three good reasons. 1) Stupid question 2) Coin is to worn 3) All the experts are on holiday. - But anyway, I have received so many helpful hints here, I start another try. I have nine 1854 Pennies, the most common date, I mean the largest mintage of all the Victorian copper Pennies. But as far as I can see, nobody really cares about the varieties for that year. Michael Gouby offers very helpul pictures for varieties to other Victorian Copper Pennies, especially concerning the design of the date on his website, but only one for that year of mintage ( http://www.michael-coins.co.uk/cp1854.htm ). If I compare this with the literatur to the varieties of the Bronze Coinage of Victorian Pennies from 1860 to 1901, with all the different Obverse and Reverse types and their combinations, I'm a bit astonished. As my picture easily shows, there are a lot of varieties and I just took a look at the varieties in the design of the date. - So my question: Is there any interesting literature, I haven't heard of?. Holger

Sorry Hussulo for my wrong spelling (Hussolo instead of Hussulo). It's quite late. Holger

Wow the man, the legend! Hi I couldn’t believe what I saw, when I came back from holiday and took a look at the forum. An answer from Mr. Freeman himself to a post of mine. I dared to write him a personal message tonight, just to tell him, what a big honour that is for me. I’m only a little German collector, so all of you can imagine, how pleased I was. The “legend†as Hussolo says. I think, Chris could also be proud, I’m sure, Mr. Freeman does not answer to posts in any forums, he finds in the internet. I know it’s not the first post of Mr. Freeman in the forum, but anyway. Of course I had to laugh, when Mr. Freeman asked me about to write a book concerning the varieties of the Victorian Copper Pennies. I think I do not need to explain that. But how about you, John, Red or Chris, just to name of a few of the candidates? There is a lack of special literature indeed to that issue in my opinion. Holger

Right you are, thanks a lot. I have to apologize, because I could have answered my question myself with a look in Peck. He has nice plates of the different shield designs and there is no doubt about the Rev B of my coins. For that reason there are no straps on the sandals to look for. But the straps of the sandals in Peck are only mentioned in context with the Halfpenny, but introduced with the words: "Rev: As the Penny...". I will have a look, when I buy the missing Rev C somewhere in the future. Thanks a lot again. Holger

As far as I know there are 3 varities about the 1826 Penny all concern the cross of St. Andrew in the flag: Rev A = No central line along arms of cross; Rev B = Thin, raised line along cross Rev C = Thick, broad raised line. In lack of comparison I do not know, what type two of my 1826 Pennies are: Rev B or Rev C?. I'm afraid the detail pictures I'm adding are as poor as the coins itself, but I'm interested in finding out what varity it is.

Now the picture of the other coin.

Hi! No, you are not odd for thinking that! As a 12 year old boy on vacation in England, I saw some Pennies dated 18XX. And I had the same thoughts as you. A coin 100 years old, being used by people born in the 18 century. What could be bought with 1 Penny in for example 1850 and so on, the same questions that you are asking. Did you know for example that nobody in whole Europe thought about "cleaning oneself"? at that time? I read that Queen Victoria has been in a bathtube 3 times all in her lifetime (and there were no showers at that time), and that is probably one or two times more than the German Goethe was in there (perhaps three times more). I've never been interested in (allday) history as a school boy, starting collecting (Victorian) coins now I am. Your question (similiar) has already been discussed in another thread a few days ago. So take a look at: http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4085 Holger

Nicely said. I'm afraid, you are right.

Hi, Carolyn The question you’ve asked is the ultimate question starting collecting British coins. All the hints you’ve already received – and you received those from really experts, I’m not (yet) one, are totally right, I just want to give you another sight and want to contradict in one point to the former answers. You have to think about a lot of things at the same time. 1. What is really interesting for me? Red Riley has said everything important to that and that is the most important anyway in my opinion. 2. How much money I’m willing to spent over the times (years for years?). Spending money it really makes a difference if you start collecting farthings or pounds (what you mentioned). And connecting to that: Do I collect coins to make money in the future or just being interested in coins (or both, if you are rich). If you are interested in making money, wait for end of the crash in the stock markets and invest your money there. In my opinion Red Rileys answer to your question is the most important one. First make up your mind about that. I agree with David and Chris about the Royal Mint offers. And my special hint as a beginner: Collecting those coins is boring! In general: If you start collecting “new†coins, there is nothing to talk about and there will come the time, you run out of money (although I have to admit, that is a general question, but for example, that problem meets you later if you are collecting Farthings from 1799 up to decimal coinage). To give you an idea: I started to collect Bronze Pennies being impressed of those as a German youngster during vacations in England. Meanwhile I’ve switched to Victorian Copper Pennies. So don’t be afraid starting with the “wrong†coins. So, the best that you can do in my opinion: Read Red Rileys answer two or three times. Then make up your mind. Before you decide at the end, buy Chris catalogue (CCGB - really not to expensive and not only as a beginner sometimes more helpful as for example the Spink catalogue – and the only one with realistic prices), and have a look at it. And then, just start! The only thing I want to contradict to the previous answers (a bit). I have started as a pure date runner (in my case Bronze Victorian Pennies) and I never had regretted that. Perhaps you will spend too much money for worn coins at the start (as I did), but it is up to date the most interesting way to get into the “issue†(perhaps the wrong word). Holger

An improvement again, a beautiful picture. But I question myself, if the coin is as good as the photo is now. I always had my difficulties to find the realistic colour with the help of using software afterwards.

Great! Only elderly female German teachers would find mistakes in your two perfect German sentences. I can't find a missing "n" in Zeitungsausschnitt and the word "den" before is also correct. I'm very pleased about your german answer, thanks. I keep quite about Chris' comments, otherwise I risk, he kicks me out of this forum Holger

Hi, Sergy Sorry for a little late reply. Interesting question! As I mentioned, I haven't photographed with such a ring lamp, so I can't really tell, how it should work. I looked at the offer again (unfortunately not at same place in the internet as it had been offered before, but still available). A bit strange, I have to admit, because the ring lamp is described as a helpul thing to photograph items within a distance in between 2 cm. A bit to close for a coin, I think. No idea! But the inner circle of the ring is 11 cm, that would be enough, to photograph just through the middle indeed. Perhaps somebody in this forum has experiences with that - or, what would interest me too, with ring flashlites photographing coins. But all in all: If you look at all the ebay offers or coin websites you will not find many coin pictures better than Hussolos new ones, Garys or mine (I know, I'm a bit unmodest ) (Well, Mr. "Lucido" on ebay does a good job), but in the end the photos must be good enough to answer the purpose for document own coins or to sell coins. So this question from Hussolo with his highly interesting link and its answers might have been at least helpful for Mr. Perkins , selling his coins. Holger!! By the way: Hi Chris: Have you heard that someone from the ore-mountains today has won a price for a "Bratwurst-emergency-service"? Great idea, especially for people living in the ore-mountains. Just call me Holger and I promise not to tell any more secrets about those nice people living there.

Stechlin, Your example looks to be the 4/4, if you look at the height of the four in relation to the 9, it is slightly taller, look at the base and side of the 4 under maginification, you should see two or three base/side serifs one above another where the four has been struck to an ever increasing height. I have attached a clearer close up for comparison. John

Yes, I have similiar problems and sometimes I`m afraid my coin collecting equipment ist more worth than my coin collection itself). Just to avoid missunderstandings: The link I have put in, shows a lamp, not a flashlight. Of course you will find flashlights in shape of a ring too, but as far as I remember they are even more expensive Herr Stechlin

The first good results I had with LED light for Copper coinage, which not reflects very much. Daylight is not an alternative for me. If you photograph the obverse of a coin and the light afterwards changes just a little bit, you will get a a different reverse photo in terms of lightning. I tried that and it made me sick. Now I use special lamps with "day-light character" (5400 kelvin). I think perfect would be such a lamp with the shape of a ring. You can find an example in the following link. Sorry, a German page http://www.studiobedarf24.eu/shop/product_...euchte-22W.html

Same coin, but hopefully a better picture

Hi Gary I'm glad to see, that the man who introduced me in collecting Pennies, is back! (and his website too!). - I have no idea, if a 1 over 1 in 1849 is the norm, my one seems to be "regular".