yaaseen

Aside from collecting pre-decimal currency I collect decimal currency. So, I went to the bank and withdrew some money in five penny coins (about £1000) and went through it all. I was looking for 2008-2020 Dent Five Penny coins which were interesting. I wrote up my findings and sent it to a journal. The journal were really interested in my article however they rejected it due to my structure being all over the place and my reluctance to go the whole hog and produce a list of die numbers with the designs of five penny coins. They were willing to accept it if I made the necessary corrections. I could not be bothered to do this so have not. It seems a shame for my research not to be out there so I am putting it on here (my rant on why academic places being exclusionary and not fit for the future can be left until another time!) I am sure many of you will say that these are not varieties but many will say they are. This post is not debating the meaning of the word but rather what five penny coin variations are there. So here we are... Die cud on the left of the off-centre line, three straight lines of blobs of metal. Dates: 2010 Harp on the bottom left has an extra line running above it and the fur of the lion is not frayed, instead it is in clumps and matte like it has not been combed. Dates: 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 Due to die wear some coins have a nice finish while others are 'grainy'. A loupe is needed to see this. The graininess is most apparent around the lettering. Due to this being because of die wear means that some coins are a little grainy while others are very grainy. If you would like to collect these I will suggest the following: one coin which is a clean strike, one which is a little grainy and one that is very very grainy. Of course the amount of graininess is subjective. However, there will be so few collectors that I do not think it will matter. Due to die wear some coins have a nice finish while others are 'grainy'. This graininess can produce stops between the letters FIVE PENCE. These prodice the varieties 'FIVE .PENCE', 'FIVE P.ENCE', 'FIVE PENCE.' V of FIVE is half filled V of FIVE is fully filled to produce a smooth triangle V of FIVE is over-filled A line running through 'ENCE' OF 'PENCE' Due to a die die there is a die cud on the back of the C of 'PENCE'. This produces the following 1. a double backed C 2. a thick backed C 3. a filled C, so an O, giving PENOE. Dates: 2013, 2015 5th head, 2017, 2019, 2020 N of 'PENCE' filled in Bottom bar of 'E' of PENCE filled in 'P' of 'PENCE' filled in 'P' of 'PENCE' is over-filled with metal sticking out I may have only mentioned about ten different varieties but most of them can be found from 2008 to 2020. So that could be 120 coins to collect across those years. A lot of work! I hope you enjoyed this read and it shows that decimals are not very boring (but still a little bit boring - I am sticking with pre-decimal!! ) Needless to say there are many more...

I did find one on eBay after you left me this message. I put a bid in but sadly missed. I found that the top bit of the G of GRATIA was missing. So - another micro-variety!

Didn’t think to look at that. But did try to find it and have - it is die 17. So this variety is limited to that die. Thanks.

I have an 1868 shilling with a stop before the date. I have spotted another one in much higher grade (forgot what website it was on) but it looks like another undocumented variety, therefore has been missed from formal reference guides. I do not think there is much else to say, as it is well just a stop 😂!) Happy hunting!

I have looked on eBay and spotted a few. And I get for most collectors it might not be exciting (but it is for me, I might be the only one 😂)

I have got one, paid £12 as I really wanted it. So, I haven’t looked for them since I already have one. If there is one there are probably more out there.

1846 and 1847 - part of the ribbon at the bottom is missing 1849 - double striking of the 4 and 9 has been noted 1852 - double striking of the 5 and 2 has been noted these are minor minor varieties, nothing to get too concerned about, having one of each date is enough i’d say 1853 - there are none, note to self: I should really double check my list 🤦‍♂️! I am guessing he didn’t know they existed or he might have thought they were maundy only??????

This list is only for circulation coins as that is what most collectors collect - I just wanted to make an easy checklist for them (and me). thankyou though for the reply

It is hard and takes time to compile a list of threepences when you have to flick through Groom, Gouby, Rayner and Davies! It is exhausting and very annoying if you miss a variety. To add, if you are a new collector it can be a bit difficult and over-whelming to know where to start so a nice easy list is needed - I could have done with it when I started. And it could serve the needs of more accomplished collectors who may have missed a variety (please don't take that as an insult, I know you worked very hard for your collection !!!) So here they are all in one place for your convenience. I have added in some varieties which are near impossible/only a millionaire will get them, for some fun, of course these are not needed for a complete collection but just of interest, I am sure you can tell which they are. 1834, D of D:G to gap, small head 1834, D of D:G to bead, large head 1835, D of D:G to gap, small head 1835, D of D:G to bead, large head 1836, D of D:G to gap, small head 1836, D of D:G to bead, large head 1837, D of D:G to gap, small head 1837, D of D:G to bead, large head 1837, stop at the left of the foot of 7 1838 1839 1840, 40 level 1840, low 40 1840, 0/0 1841 1842 1843, small 43 1843, large 43 1844, small 44 1844, large 44 1845, small 45 1845, large 45 1846 (varieties, but difficult date so I can't be bothered!) 1847 (varieties, but difficult date so I can't be bothered!) 1848 1849 (varieties, but difficult date so I can't be bothered!) 1850, full hair 1850, a die fill is recorded on this date leading to the following that I have seen (1) missing hair by bun. (2) missing hair by bun and O of VICTORIA incomplete. So what is next on this die fill, is there one with the O missing or part of the R or T missing - do you have one? I would love to see it 1851 (varieties, but hard date so I can't be bothered! However there is the rare 1551 instead of 1851 threepence!!!!) 1852(varieties, but hard date so I can't be bothered!) 1853 (varieties, but hard date so I can't be bothered!) 1854, 54 below 18 1854, 54 level with 18 1855, curved top bar of 5 1855, flat top bar of 5 1856 1857, C of VICT plain 1857, C of VICT with serif, I/I in VICT 1857, C of VICT with serif, bottom left foot of I missing 1857, date varieties but I think collecting the above is enough 1858, C of VICT with serif, G with short crossbar 1858, C of VICT with serif, G with long crossbar 1858, 8/6 1858, BRITANNIAB 1859, C of VICT with serif, G with short crossbar 1859, C of VICT with serif, G with long crossbar 1859, C of VICT plain, G with short crossbar 1859, C of VICT plain, G with short crossbar, I/I of VICT 1859, 9/8 1860, plain C of VICT 1860, C of VICT with serif 1861, plain C of VICT, small gap between 61 1861, plain C of VICT, medium gap between 61 1861, plain C of VICT, wide gap between 61 1861, C of VICT with serif, small gap between 61 1861, C of VICT with serif, medium gap between 61 1861, C of VICT with serif, wide gap between 61 1861, D/B in D:G 1862 1862, BRITANNIAH, one sold at London Coins in 2016 for £280! 1863 1864 1864, tall 4 1865, flat 5, thin top bar, belly of 5 open 1865, flat top bar of 5, small gap between top bar and belly of 5 due to the top-bar being concave, closed belly of 5 1865, top bar of 5 gradually pointing upwards, like in italic typeface 1866 1867, I of VICT to gap, bump under top bar of 3 (very small, need a loupe to see it) 1867, I of VICT to tooth, bump under top bar of 3 (very small, need a loupe to see it) 1867, I of VICT to tooth, no bump under top bar of 3 1868, I of VICT to gap 1868, I of VICT to tooth 1868, RRITANNIAR 1869 is maundy only, I believe so not on a list normally 1870 1871 1872 1873 1874, 4 has t-bar tail 1874, 4 has tail that curves upwards 1875 1876 1877 1878 1879 1879, heavily re-engraved hair, to be honest I do not get this one - you need a good example to be aware what variety it is - best to look at some pictures, any description I put here would not suffice and perhaps you may be even more confused (1873-1879 has varieties with concerning the nose, I can't be bothered with that here) 1880 1881 1882 1883 1884 1885 1886 1887 Young Head 1887J, cross on crown has 3 dots around it, BRITT: 1887J, cross on crown has 2 lines and one dot around it, BRITT: 1887, cross on crown has 2 lines and one dot around it, weak top colon of BRITT: 1887, nothing around cross of crown, BRITT: 1887, weak lines around cross of crown, BRITT. 1887, nothing around cross of crown, BRITT. 1888, three dots around cross 1888, 2 lines and dot around cross 1889, 3 dots around cross, cross on reverse has an engraved border, I of BRITT to bead 1889, 2 lines and dot around cross, cross on reverse is plain 1889, 2 lines and dot around cross, cross on reverse has engraved border 1889, 3 dots around cross, cross on reverse has an engraved border, I of BRITT to gap 1890, cross is plain on reverse 1890, cross on reverse has an engraved border 1891 1892 1893J 1893V, I of REGINA to gap 1893V, I of RENGINA to tooth 1894V, I of REGINA to gap 1894V, I of RENGINA to tooth 1895 1896 1897 1898 1899 1900 1901 1902 1903 1904, I of IMP to tooth, 3 close to ribbon 1904, I of IMP to gap, 3 close to ribbon 1904, I of IMP to tooth, 3 far from ribbon 1904, I of IMP to gap, 3 far from ribbon 1905, I of IMP to tooth 1905, I of IMP to gap 1906, I of IMP to tooth 1906, I of IMP to gap 1907 1908 1909 1910 1911, I of BRITT to tooth, straight stalk 1911, I of BRITT to tooth, kinked stalk 1911, I of BRITT to gap, straight stalk 1911, I of BRITT to gap, kinked stalk 1912 1913 1914, P of IMP to bead 1914, P of IMP to space 1915 1916 1917 1918 1918, cud in where the two o's of the 8 meet on the right hand side, this is what Davies was alluding to when he wrote 8/9 in his reference guide! Not really a variety, but put it in anyway 1919 1920 (in 92.5% and 50%, basically impossible to tell apart unless you go to your nearest university and ask them very kindly if you could use one of their machines, not quiet sure what it is called, to check the metal content) 1921 1922 1922, second leaf up on right hand side has a stalk going out touching the rim. This is a cud but for 'completeness' have added it in. I have only seen one in about two months of looking and bought it (lucky me), have looked for a further couple of months and have not seen any. So very rare - a good one to hunt if you have finished your collection! 1925 1926, NE, I of IVS to bead 1926, ME, I of IVS to space 1928 1929 1930 1931 1932 1933 1934 1935, legend close to teeth 1935, legend further from teeth 1936 1937S 1937B, small gap above REE, B of BR to corner 1937B, small gap above REE, B of BR right of corner 1937B, large gap above REE, B of BR to corner 1937B, large gap above REE, B of BR right of corner 1938S 1938B 1939S 1939B 1940S 1940B 1941S 1941B 1941B, 194L, most likely a cud - if you have one show us a picture! 1942S 1942B 1943S 1943B 1944S 1944B 1945B 1946 1948 1949 1950 1951 1952 1953, shallow 1953, high relief 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 1960 1961 1962 1963 1964 1965 1966 1967

I like coins but when they are marketed so highly it really gets on my nerves: 1. overcharging an innocent customer 2. when that customer does find out it gives coin collecting a bad name 3. A waste 4. Over-exaggerating the value of a coin It is a shame as well because the London Mint produces some nice coins at reasonable prices (once every couple of years 😂)

It is basically impossible to tell from photos. The easiest way to tell is to get an uncirculated halfcrown and hold them up to each other. I too had this problem when I was first collecting, I was scared that I wouldn't be able to tell - but once you have it against an uncirculated one it is very easy. If you have a proof halfcrown then it will 'look' exactly like that. Hope that helps

Yes, it is also called a polished die, saw one on eBay currently - there will always be one at some time, but I wouldn’t pay more than £12 maybe. I hope that helps

EDITED LIST 2 As we know as collectors, no one reference guide gives us all the varieties. I find it tricky as a collector to flick through Groom, Davies, Gouby, and the internet for unlisted varieties and listed ones (on sites like LondonCoins too), so have put together this list of shillings that you can copy and past and use as a checklist. If this helps I am more than happy to create lists for other denominations Some varieties are very difficult to get, so of course as a collector you do not need to collect every single one to achieve a 'full set' If anybody would like to give me a clear differentiators between the 1858 and 1859 shilling varieties that would be most helpful as Davies is so unhelpful! And if anybody thinks I am missing any varieties please reply and I will add them to the list 1816 1816, barless H of Honi (?) 1817 1817, high 7 1817, RRIT 1817, R/E in GEOR 1817, I/S in HONI 1817, unbarred H of Honi 1817 RFX for REX 1818 1818, high 8 1819 1819, 9/8 1819 9/3 (in the royal mint) 1819 9/6 1819 9/9 1820 1820, high 2 1820, high 0 1820, barless H of HONI 1820, I/S in HONI 1819 9/3 (in the royal mint) 1819 9/6 1819 9/9 1821 1823 1824 1825 Shield 1825 Shield, 5/3 1825 Lion 1825 Lion, Roman 1 1826 1827 1829 1834 1835 1836 1837 1838 1839, W.W. 1839, no W.W. 1840 1841 1842, wide date 1842, narrow date 1843 1844 1844, large 44 1845 1846 1848 1848, 8/6, wide date 1848, 8/6 narrow date 1849 1850 1851 1852 1853 1854 1855 1856, wide date 1856, narrow date 1857, 7 to space 1857, 7 to bead 1857, high 57 1857, 5/5 1858, I of DEI to gap 1858, obverse 2 1858, I of DEI to bead 1858, 8/9 1859, I of DEI to gap 1859, obverse 2 1859, I of DEI to bead 1860 1861, narrow date 1861, wide date 1861, wider date 1862 1863 1863, 3/1 1864 1864, large 4, die 41 1865 1865, 5/3, die 29 1865, die 29 but not 5/3 1866 1867, I of VICT to bead, LL close 1867, I of VICT to bead, LL far 1867, I of VICT to space, LL close 1867, I of VICT to space, LL far 1867, pellet between die number 1868 1868, dot before date 1869 1870 1871 1872 1873, fat 3 1873, bottom loop of 3 open 1873, narrow 3 1864, slant-up tail 1874, t-bar tail 1875 1876 1877, no die number 1877, die number 1878, bun open 1878, bun closed 1879, cross right of bead, bun open 1879, cross right of bead, bun closed 1879, cross to space 1880, cross to bead 1880, cross to space 1881, cross to bead 1881, cross to bead, SHILLING more spaced 1881, cross to space 1882 1883 1883, A's protrude above legend 1884, cross away from beads 1884, cross touches beads 1885 1886 1887 Young Head 1887J, long loopless tail of Q 1887J, Q has no tail 1887J, Q has looped tail 1888 1888, 8/7 1889, small head, Q has looped tail, 9 to bead 1889, small head, Q has looped tail, 9 to space 1889, small head, Q has almost no tail 1889, medium head, Q has looped tail 1889, large head, Q has almost no tail 1889, large head, Q has no tail 1890, cross on orb same width as cross 1890, cross on orb wider than orb 1891 1892 1893, I of VICT to space 1893, I of VICT to bead 1894, I of DEI to space, I of ING to space 1894, I of DEI to space, I of ING to bead 1894, I of DEI to bead, I of ING to space 1894, I of DEI to bead, I of ING to bead 1895, I of ING to space 1895, I of ING to bead 1896, I of ING to space 1896, I of ING to bead 1897, 9 and 7 far 1897, 9 and 7 close 1897, 9 and 7 almost touching 1898 1899 1900 1901 1902 1903, TT of BRITT aligned 1903, TT of BRITT misaligned, wide gap between R and D of ED 1903, TT of BRITT misaligned, small gap between R and D of ED 1904, TT of BRITT aligned 1904, TT of BRITT misaligned, wide gap between R and D of ED 1904, TT of BRITT misaligned, small gap between R and D of ED 1905 1906, TT of BRITT aligned 1906, TT of BRITT misaligned, wide gap between R and D of ED 1906, TT of BRITT misaligned, small gap between R and D of ED 1907 1908 1909 1910 1911, I of IVS to space 1911, I of IVS to bead, hollow neck 1911, I of IVS to bead, flat neck 1912, P of IMP to bead 1912, P of IMP to space 1913 1914 1915 1916 1917 1918 1919 1920, : after OMN to gap 1920, : after OMN to bead 1921, I of IVS to bead, : after OMN to space, I of FID left of bead (3D) 1921, I of IVS to space, I of FID left of bead (3E) 1921, I of IVS to space, I of FID right of space (4E) 1921, I of IVS to bead, : after OMN to bead, I of FID left of bead (5D) 1921, I of IVS to bead, : after OMN to bead, I of FID right of space (5E) 1922 1923 1924 1925 1926 1926 ME 1927 short tail 1927 long tail 1928 1929 1930 1931 1932 1933 1934 1935 1936 1937 E 1937 S 1938 E 1938 S 1939 E 1939 S 1940 E 1940 S 1941 E 1941 S 1942 E 1942 S 1943 E 1943 S 1944 E 1944 S 1945 E 1945 S 1946 E, I of SHILL to space 1946 E, I of SHILL to bead 1946 S 1947 E 1947 S 1948 E 1948 S 1949 E 1949 S 1950 E 1950 S 1951 E 1951 S 1953 E, I of LIZ to bead 1953 S, I of LIZ to bead 1953 E, I of LIZ to space 1953 S, I of LIZ to space 1954 E 1954 S 1955 E, thin rim 1955 E, thick rim 1955 S, I of ING to space 1955 S, I of ING to bead 1956 E, I of FID to bead 1956 E, I of FID to space 1956 S 1957 E 1957 S 1958 E 1958 S 1959 E 1959 S, ornaments near 1959 S, ornaments far 1960 E 1960 S 1961 E 1961 S 1962 E 1962 S 1963 E 1963 S 1964 E 1964 S 1965 E 1965 S 1966 E 1966 S

I know about the 7 to space amd bead but believe that this variety is only on proofs - and I am not including proofs. How is the G broken?

As we know as collectors, flicking through Groom, Davies and Rayner can be tiresome - so here is a quick list to check that you have all the varieties If you have any more varieties I would be interested in a reply so I can add them to the list. Hopefully this is something that will benefit new collectors - I know it is something I really needed! 1816 1817 Large Head 1817 Large Head, D/T in DEI 1817 Large Head, I/Arabic 1 in FID 1817 Large Head, E/F in DEF 1817 Large Head, F/E in REX 1817 Large Head, U/U in QUI 1817 Large Head, S/I in PENSE 1817 Large Head, E/F in DEI (don't feel like you have to collect all the 1817's ) 1817 Small Head 1817 Small Head, bottom loop of 8 open 1818 1819 1819, 9/8 1819, 9/9 1820 George III 1820 George IV 1821, 11 leaves on thistle 1821, 6 leaves on thistle 1821, R/B in BRITANNIAR (not sure which R - does it even matter as the vast majority of us will never see one!) 1823 Shield 1823, N/E in PENSE 1823 Garter (rare) 1824 Laureate Head 1824 Bare Head 1825 1826, I of BRIT has serifs 1826, I of BRIT missing top left serif 1828 1829 1834, block WW (harder) 1834, italic WW 1835 1836 1836, 6/5 1836, L/E in LMVS 1837 1839 (varieties exist but is a rare coin so just put the one) 1840 1841 1842 1843 1844, 4's without serifs 1844, 4's with serifs 1845, 4 without serif 1845, 4 with serif 1845, 5/3 (ext rare) 1846, 4 without serif 1846, 4 with serif (does it exist?) 1846, 8/6 1848 1848, second 8/6 (does this come with 4 with a serif and without a serif, if not this could tell us a lot about which varieties were minted first and which were minted last???) 1848, 8/7 (rare) 1849, large date 1849, small date 1850 1874, 4 without serif 1874, 4 with serif (does it exist?) 1875 1876 1876, 6/5 1877 1878 1879, I of DEI to gap 1879, I of DEI to bead 1880, I of FID to gap 1880, I of FID to bead 1881, I of DEI to gap 1881, I of DEI to bead 1882 1883 1884 1885 1886 1887 Young 1887 Jubilee, 2 thick lines below crown and nearly 4 pearls in centre arch 1887 Jubilee, one thick line with a thin line below and above which is situated below the crown and 3 pearls in centre arch of crown 1888 1889, OBV: 2 thick lines below crown and nearly 4 pearls in centre arch, REV: cross has curved edges and large pearl 1889, OBV: 2 thick lines below crown and nearly 4 pearls in centre arch, REV: cross has straight edges and small pearl 1889, OBV: one thick line with a thin line below and above which is situated below the crown and 3 pearls in centre arch of crown, REV: cross has curved edges and large pearl 1889, OBV: one thick line with a thin line below and above which is situated below the crown and 3 pearls in centre arch of crown, REV: cross has straight edges and small pearl 1889, OBV: one thick line with a thin line below and above which is situated below the crown and 3 pearls in centre arch of crown, REV: large cross (DAVIES IS RUBBISH AT THIS SO LOOK AT ALLCOINVALUES SITE AND GOUBY'S TO HELP YOU, IT MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE WHEN YOU DO) 1890 1891 1892 1893, I of BRITT to tooth 1893, I of BRITT to gap 1894, I of BRITT to tooth 1894, I of BRITT to gap 1895 1896, thin rim 1896, thick rim 1897 1898 1899 1900 1901 1902 1903 1904 1905 1906 1907 1908 1909 1910 1911 1912 1913 1914 1915 1916 1917 1918 1919 1920, E of DEI has no serif 1920, E of DEI has serif (there are other varieties but I cannot be bothered, if you can and the descriptions are better than in Davies then please do!) 1921, 1 to bead 1921, 1 to space 1922, short H of HONI 1922, tall H of HONI 1923 1924 1925 1926, I of IVS left of tooth 1926, I of IVS to tooth 1927 1928, thin rim on REV, 9 to space 1928, thin rim on REV, 9 to bead 1928, thick rim on REV 1929, D of IND to gap 1929, D of IND to tooth 1930 1931 1932 1933, normal rim 1933, thin rim 1934 1935 1936 1937 1937, with a die crack below the 7, not something British numismatists are interested in, I know, but something to add in and look out for perhaps 1938 1939 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 1946 1947 1948 1949 1950 1951 1952 1953, A of GRA to gap 1953, A of GRA to bead 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 1960 1961, full initials (the following are due to die fills so there are many 'varieties') 1961, unbarred E or F 1961, EF missing 1961, EF and C missing 1961, EF and CT missing 1961, polished die 1962, I of TIA to gap, D of DEF to tooth 1962, I of TIA to gap, D of DEF to gap 1962, I of TIA to tooth, D of DEF to tooth 1962, I of TIA to tooth, D of DEF to gap 1963 1964 1965 1966 1967