Madness

I'm contemplating bidding on the DNW I/D and am going to sell some stuff on eBay to fund it. This will include selling the example I bought from Michael. I paid 55 GBP for it described as aEF. Considering it's only VF, how much do you think I should list if for on eBay? What does Spink say? Do you think the idiosyncrasies should increase the amount I ask for it? How much should I bid for the DNW example? I guess all this stuff is unknown and unknowable.

Yes @Rob. I think I'll be talking to myself on this thread. I'll keep it going, though, as I find it fascinating to associate coins with other aspects of culture going on around it at the same time. Edit: If anyone's interested, feel free to post a coin and I'll find some music to go with it.

To be honest, I'm enjoying the research as much as the actual collecting, if not more. My wife is recognising this and has agreed to effectively double my hobby budget to the equivalent of 100 GBP per month. I'll be spending some of this on books. Have my eye on three at the moment: Bull - English Silver Coinage Since 1649 Peck - English Copper, Tin and Bronze Coins in the British Museum 1558-1958 Spink - Coins of England & The United Kingdom - Pre-Decimal Issue Do you think these will be useful resources? Can you recommend any other "must-haves"? I was also able to track down a copy of Cooper's "The Art and Craft of Coinmaking: A History of Minting Technology" that I was able to borrow from the State Library of NSW. Slowly working my way through this. If I could find a copy at a reasonable price I'd probably buy this as well. The books will have to wait until next year. I've got my eye on two more coins from the September auctions and @Rob has kindly kept a "no-stops-at-date" 1787 Shilling that he has put aside for me until later in the year.

My first experience was buying a guinea graded by the eBay seller as good very fine. It was a piece of crap worth only its value in bullion. The research was part of an effort to ensure that I wasn't ripped off again. There are many trust worthy people here, but part of the learning process is learning to know who to trust. I appreciate all advice on this forum and thoroughly enjoy my interactions here. I've come to Pre-decimal to learn, which implies I trust you, which I do! Thanks everyone for all your help. 😊

Just want to make it clear that I didn't "discover" the overstrike. I saw the DNW auction listing, was interested and decided to investigate further at the suggestion of @Peckris 2. Just wanted to verify that it was a genuine overstrike, determine how rare it was and try to work out how much it was really worth. This hobby is teaching me to be less trusting of people. Hmm. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

In the process of buying two coins from Michael recently we exchanged a couple of emails a day. In the process he revised the grade of the 1787 shilling down from pAS to EF+, indicative of his current grading activities. Despite what the website says, he seems to be actively involved in all aspects of the business. I recently asked him to keep me in mind if he ever found a "1-over-upside-down-1" 1787 shilling, and he stated that he wasn't actively looking to increase his stock. So, yes, he seems to be semi-retired and living/working in Reading.

In case anyone is interested, here are my sources of images for I/D 1787 sixpences, some of which are for sale: https://www.gbclassiccoins.co.uk/shop/sixpences/1787-george-iii-early-milled-silver-sixpence-no-hearts-near-ef-2/ https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Great-Britain-1787-George-111-Sixpence-Without-Hearts-EF-gVF-/142907377281?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137 (sold on eBay apparently and so link redirects you. You have to click "see original item") https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1787-GEORGE-III-SILVER-SIXPENCE-WITH-HEARTS-GOOD-VERY-FINE-OR-BETTER-CONDITION/152522895551?hash=item238312b0bf:g:kMkAAOSwVm5Y~dBd The overstrike isn't very clear here, but the other marks of the same die are evident. Pretty confident this is an example on that basis. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1787-KING-GEORGE-III-GREAT-BRITAIN-SILVER-SHILLING-AND-SIXPENCE-/253803827617?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137 (Again, this has apparently sold on eBay and the link redirects. Click on "see original item". https://townhallcoins.com/products/gb-1787-sixpence-vf https://www.baldwin.co.uk/coins/great-britain/british-patterns-and-proofs/george-iii-rare-proof-sixpence-1787.html (Described as proof, but this is just a heavy-flan test piece in my opinion) https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/great-britain-george-iii-proof-sixpence-1787-/a/3032-31906.s (again, heavy-flan piece, not proof) Add to these the coin that I purchased from Michael, the "heavy-flan example" in the first post and the link to the DNW auction in the first post, that makes ten examples in total. I made a mistake in my first post, as I remembered having come across another heavy-flan example, making three of these and seven circulation coins. Another couple of points of interest are that the I/D obverse is always paired with the same reverse die. You can tell by the flaw on the "D" in the legend that's at the 2 o'clock position. I also suspect that the "8" in "1787" is upside down, but need to look into this further.

Thanks Jerry I used the money from my guinea sale to buy this 1787 shilling, which I won at the Davissons auction that just ended: https://davcoin.com/lot/e-auction-26-lot-89 Looking forward to expanding my 1787 sixpences as well (in time), including run of the mill varieties.

I thought so too @Michael-Roo The grading is Michael Gouby's, not mine. I trust his opinion more than my own, though.

Well, my coin collection has officially started, if in fact two coins constitute a collection. Both of these was purchased from Michael Gouby. The 1787 shilling is a thing of beauty, graded by Michael as EF+. A faint scratch on the obverse prevented him from selling it as "practically as struck". This is the less common variety without the stop of George III's head. The second coin is a 1787 sixpence in EF? condition. It's obviously less visually-appealing than the shilling, but has an interesting flaw that I might bring up in another thread. Certainly worth having, at least for me. I was tempted to throw in the towel after my first experience, but I'm now officially hooked. Off to look at auction offerings! I've got some spare money from the guinea sale burning a hole in my pocket.

If you have a spare 45 minutes, listen to this. If you don't have a spare 45 minutes, you shouldn't be collecting coins! Takes me back to 1992, when I heard it for the first time as an 18 year old. I lived on a rural property and must have been the only one at home. Midnight on a balmy summer's evening. Sitting on the doorstep with Prokofiev blasting out. What a revelation that was.

I recently purchased a copy of the Rotographic publication "The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins". This is obviously a wonderful resource, but I've decided that I'll only be collecting early milled at this stage. As the book is no longer going to be useful to me I've decided to give it away, entirely unused except having been flicked through. You'll need to cover shipping. I'm in Australia, though, and shipping mightn't be cheap enough to make it worthwhile if you're in the UK. Good for fellow Aussies, though, if you don't already have a copy. Please let me know if you're interested.

The nays have it. I'll defer to years of wisdom and keep this.

That's what I get for following instructions given by a GPS.

My guestimate: Extremely fine This obverse has many imperfections, but they are almost all related to die deterioration in the form of wear, cracks and fill. There is only minimal wear to the coin itself. I find the toning a little puzzling. What are the marks that look like rust? Is it possible that the coin was in contact with a rusting metal surface and this stained the surface of the coin? Are the very small gouges "bag marks"?

I'M TIRED OF TEA!!

I'm a mule

When is a mule not a mule? When it's a little hoarse.

Here is the eBay listing from which the image was taken: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1787-GREAT-BRITAIN-925-Silver-NO-HEARTS-SIXPENCE-1-Year-TYPE-King-GEORGE-III/202408777702?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

I've looked closer and compared to it to the September proof and an EF circulation sample. Many of the details appear "rounder", especially noticeable on the upper surface of the letters. Could die wear cause something like this, as it's certainly not related to wear.

The grade, assuming everything else is in order?

Can you elaborate? Is related to the toning?

My guestimate: aEF/EF