Madness

OK. The database now has, frustratingly, 493 coins. I'm at the point where each coin I see is ultimately from a source I've already searched. It would be awesome if forum members could contribute images of 7 more coins. Thanks!

Yep. Not happy with the 1787 Shilling I bought from Davissons, so have listed it for sale on eBay: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1787-Shilling-with-Hearts-George-III-Proclamation-Coin-Good-Extremely-Fine/263960640253 Do you think my description is fair, not a cop out and not misleading? Regardless of the grade, I'd like a semee-of-hearts variety to match the quality of the no-stop-over-head variety I already own. This one isn't it, despite the quality of lustre. Will just have to cut my losses. In the meantime I'll put the money realised from the sale towards 1787 sixpence/s for my die study.

You don't like unnecessary tautologies?

Would you grade it, then, as "almost practically as struck"?

My guestimate: Extremely Fine Is the lustre "natural" or do you think it's been dipped?

Thanks Jerry I think I'm part way to learning to differentiate between die flaws/wear/deterioration and con wear. I'm working off the following assumptions: 1. Generally, if there is coin wear, it will exist on at least three points of the face. Just a stool needs at least three legs to stand, so a coin will rest on a level surface on its three highest points. 2. Coin wear will result in a flattening of the surfaces when coming into abrasive contact with a surface 3. Wear will affect the coin's toning/lustre on the points of abrasion, although I imagine time could ameliorate some of the differences between the original surface and worn surfaces Please correct these assumptions as I'm just putting my ideas out there. On the obverse face of this coin there are small flattened surfaces on four curls, some drapery, the edges of two laurel leaves and the extra metal extruded from a die crack. These places have a lustre that's brighter than the surfaces in other areas, the same lustre, in fact, as the area affected by the coin adjustment. I assume that these pieces of evidence work together to indicate these are points of coin wear. Yes. the coin lacks some crispness and details that I'm seeing on a number of coins, which I attribute to die wear. But there's also coin wear in my opinion. This is why I question the grading. The bright lustre described by the auctioneer corresponds in location to the adjustment marks and I'm assuming that these two features are somehow related. Sorry, but I'm incapable of taking better pictures. You'll have to teach me how!

Never mind. There's a time limit of three days on claims and they don't guarantee their grading: "Any claims, other than claims of authenticity, must be made within three days of receipt of lots. N.B. Attribution and condition are the opinion of the cataloger and no warranty is expressed or implied." I suck at buying coins. More practice needed I suppose.

I won this coin at the recent Davissons Auction. They graded it as Good Extremely Fine, but there seems to be more wear than I would have expected from a coin in this condition. Do you agree? If so, has anyone tried returning a coin to them based on incorrect grade? I have a basis for comparison in the form of an EF+ 1787 Shilling purchased from Michael Gouby, to which it doesn't compare favorably. I took the images above with my phone. Here is the link to the Davissons listing: https://davcoin.com/lot/e-auction-26-lot-89

Thanks Chris! I have a long way to go.

My guestimate: gEF I was almost going to give this an aPAS, if it weren't for the lack of detail in the two curls as circled in the lower image. Mind you, I can't remember having seen any detail yet in either of these curls with the exception of the September proof, which was double struck. Given the seeming ubiquity of the lack of detail here in the circulation coins, I'm not sure whether it's the product of coin wear, die wear or the result of something else in the minting process (such as slightly too little pressure applied by the press). The fields seem relatively clean, although there are a couple of hairline scratches on the reverse. The obverse has less of the pitting that plagues many (I'm a little hesitant to use the word "most" at this stage) of the circulation 1787 sixpences. There is a small die crack at about 5 o'clock. Please critique my grading and comments.

Thanks again to everyone who's contributed so far, especially @seuk for his many images. The database now stands at a bit over three hundred and thirty 1787 sixpences. More representative images welcome! If I can find more than five hundred I'll be a very happy chap.

@Mr T This is probably of no value to you now, but I've found two Australian Universities that hold a copy each: Macquaire and The University of Western Australia. http://www.worldcat.org/title/numismatics-witness-to-history-articles-by-members-of-the-iapn-to-commemorate-its-35th-anniversary-la-numismatique-temoin-de-lhistoire-articles-de-membres-de-lainp-pour-le-35e-anniversaire-de-lassociation/oclc/18712890

I can't help but think that David Gilmour is singing this song to me and about me, particularly the first verse. I love it, but it makes me sad.

Have you checked with your local library about an inter-library loan?

[Silly joke removed]

I'd love to see all your scans! Thank you. At the moment I'm concentrating on the sixpences, so it would be great if I could have access to these images.

Thank you @Nonmortuus. Splendid coins.

I don't know if there's such a thing as an undergrad degree in numismatics, but if there were it should probably include subjects drawn from the following disciplines: Social history Economic history Archaeology Probability/statistics Graphical/imaging information technology Curation/conservation Materials science Historical survey of mechanical engineering At least one non-native language A practical subject in the art and craft of coin-making, including experimental archaeology The trouble with such a course is that it would only have niche appeal and little application to a career outside of academia. If only such a degree existed in Australia 25 years ago! Many of my areas of interest seem to intersect in numismatics. My year twelve subjects consisted of Modern History, Mathematics (calculus and functions), German, Physics, English and Music. I guess these are roughly equivalent to A levels in the UK. I took a year of Classical Greek and two years of Koine. I gained entry into an honours degree in engineering, but deferred, never to return. I began a masters in library and information management, again deferring after only one semester. I'm certainly not trying to build myself up here by reciting this sad history of not seeing things through. Rather, I'm analysing the particulars of why I'm drawn into this strangely appealing hobby. Perhaps others were sucked in for similar reasons. Anyone?

Hypothesis 6 - Once new varieties are discovered and brought to the public's attention collectors and sellers will examine their coins for these varieties and themselves make the existence of these specimens known publicly. It follows that this will effect the results of a die study and any attempt to determine the number of coins struck from particular dies. Since revealing the existence of the Hearts/7-String/Serif-7 variety of the 1787 sixpence on this forum two more have been listed for sale on eBay. I guess this could be a coincidence, but the population of this coin has immediately grown by 200% from 1 to 3! Hmm. Is this a good thing or a bad thing for a die study? If a mathematical model could be developed such occurences could be accounted for. Speculation - I wonder if it would be possible to building into a statisical analysis the effect of variants on the use of a particular die. If a die has a scarce variation it will have relatively high survival rate of coins. The run-of-the-mill dies will produce coins that are circulated into oblivion. The concept of "scarce" itself is also then called into question. Dies with insignificant variations may well become scarcer than those with obvious variations and be more difficult for the completionist to find in a high grade. Oh, a die study is a tricky thing! I wish I knew more about the mathematics of probability! Actually, I need to refine that statement. I wish I knew anything about the mathematics of probability! OK, OK. You've caught me out. I wish I knew anything about mathematics!

That's awesome, thanks @declanwmagee ! Thanks everyone. The more the merrier! I have about 280 at the moment.

Thank you!