oldcopper

The Ingrams may have many nice coins but to describe the following 1806 gilt penny as "AFDC, die flaw Obv sl marks" £275, is incredible. And that's putting it politely. I think this coin was sold by Spink for not much in the early 2000's as "with a severe gouge and associated scratching" or words to that effect. Which it obviously has. The bottom line is not reassuring words (which may be wonderfully written but cost nothing) but a good recommendation from established or experienced collectors for instance on this forum. Can any experienced forum person give such a recommendation?

In terms of £/surface area, this must be the most expensive milled British non-gold coin.

You should have said! - I've just put one into DNW - it's ex-Spink auction Sept 2016 and is a nice looking coin, though it has two scratches on the Queen's neck. I don't know whether it's got the divot or not, don't know whether it's observable on the photo. https://www.spink.com/lot/16006002396 Edit - I can't see it on the photo.

Flattened in some sort of mechanical press maybe? Spink sold an ex-Peck GII old-head "penny" once, ie a halfpenny which they said had been squeezed in a press. I couldn't see any distortion of the design in the photo. The seller gives no weight for the coin - conveniently missing from the description. If it was on a very heavy flan, now that would be more interesting.

Yes, that's the one. Sorry I've been off the computer until now.

Good one on the F76, grab these best known examples of rarities if money allows, otherwise you may regret it ever after. I still occasionally rue the day my computer cocked up as I was about to bid for I think the finest F7 with virtually full orange glow (not streaky as often seen) at the Spink Dec 2015 sale. At the time I thought I'd never see another one like that and of course I haven't since. It went for £1100 hammer which was written up in Coin News as a high price, but I think it was a snip for whoever got it.

They're finally going now - nearly an hour down "due to streaming problems". I notice the 1847 penny of Hyram's lots went somewhat above estimate. Well I never.....

It's in Freeman's book as well, but the photo is not good, you can hardly see the ship.

Thanks, that's the one I was thinking of - great design!

Sorry! it's not a dreadnought, it's got sails of course. I should have reminded myself. I think the dreadnought's on a later pattern penny.

I recall one went for ~$15,000 at a Stacks and Bowers auction several years ago, about 2014. I wished I'd bid on the London Coins one from a few years before that which went for ~£1600 hammer. From memory. Were they making Dreadnoughts then? I think I read that's what the ship is somewhere. Maybe the same coin that MR sold in his list above.

And it's the rarer open 3 variety!

It's not a Seaby/Laurence scenario then....(a 1933 penny hiding in a lot of bric-a-brac).

I'd have thought so - these coins were struck for collectors in relatively small mintages, so a higher standard of strike would be expected.

No.

Yes, I can do that, not scan but photocopy (my scanner's on the blink).

Yes, it's a very good article, several pages long. There's the odd mistake but I use it as a regular reference. It's a shame there's no other book since Peck that goes into Copper proofs/patterns in depth - there are references to articles on things like Soho patterns that are apparently very useful but these are often in defunct publications or BNJ (so maybe on the web). I haven't got a decent scanner unfortunately, all I can suggest is that if you're visiting Spinks (DNW might have it as well) they should be able to provide you with a photocopy (or Secret Santa's reply which I've just seen). I had a look at my P1323 proof KP30 last night and you're right, it has got the incuse curl. I find it hard to tell without having a strong mag. glass to hand, even then I was getting a bit cross-eyed! Raised/incuse can give an optical illusion of the other way round at times.

Possibly might be on the Internet. Otherwise perhaps Spink would send you a photocopy?

Looks like you're right there - I've just checked the illustrations.

No, it's not mentioned in Mick Martin's article (actually July 2009 SNC) so could be a discovery coin. As Iannich48 says, neither of these dies was used for restriking and I presume it has an engrailed edge.

Yes, restrikes are also in Peck, he was the first person to classify them in detail. For 1799 - 1807 - if it's got an engrailed edge it's SOHO, not a restrike, and if it's got a plain edge, it probably is a restrike (though not always). That's because Taylor did not have the edging equipment. It does look like a KP30/31 mule - good discovery! Mick Martin listed a lot of unrecorded SOHO strikes in his SNC June (?) 2009 article addendum. It may be one of those.

Michael, I don't quite understand your angle here, but we're not on this Forum for our political uniformity, we're on here mainly to discuss coins. That's why this is a separate thread from the rest. But if you wish to share your views on politics or whatever, go for it.

Well, finish your mouthful of cornflakes before you splutter, those well-known far-right conspiracy theorists the BBC agree with me: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45765496 Though I think their reasons given are not the main answer. People who have less assets and are generally poorer, which is to a larger extent immigrants as compared to long-term residents, will vote for a big-state party ie a left-wing party. I think that's quite obvious and I would probably do in a similar situation. Unless this radically changes, which I don't expect it will in the foreseeable future, the problem is that accumulated immigration of an ethnic Bloc vote will eventually produce a tipping point at which we may have a labour government in perpetuity. Now I'm sure you want this, but I don't. The relentless left-wing indoctrination in our education system (eg only 7% of primary school teachers and 8% of secondary school teachers vote Tory - source TES 2017) is something that schoolchildren and students cannot escape. Whereas you can choose which paper to buy - as I said there is a whole raft of left-wing Remain papers (The Guardian, the Mirror, the European, the Independent (online) and these are very much over-represented in online news via search engines. And the BBC is also a liberal elite Remain institution. So to suggest that Newscorp was responsible for the election result is to ignore the massive other side of the propaganda war - which is much further reaching for the reasons given above.

I laugh when I see anyone whinge about the "demonization" or smearing of Corbyn. There is no need to embellish the truth about the man. and he hasn't sued anyone yet as far as I'm aware. The Guardian, Independent and Mirror seem to run Google news and they treat him like a saint compared to Boris. So online news and twitter are I think an important principal reason that more young people voted Labour - the wall-to-wall propaganda that they are fed through their mobile phones/computers, as well as from academia (of whom ~80% vote Labour apparently). Also, don't forget Labour rely on the ethnic vote in London to a large extent- I wouldn't think that has much to do with leave/remain.

I hope not! Redistribution, essentially uncompensated re-nationalisation etc etc. Nice one for shares and private pensions. Also the massive importation of a Labour bloc-vote in immigrants, (~75% of non-UK born residents vote labour from analysis of recent elections) with immediate voting rights. Plus giving the vote to 16 and 17 years olds (in a rigged 2nd referendum) who's only experience of political views in many cases has been their Marxist teachers and remain and left-leaning social media. What's not to like? The financial markets response to the election result is revealing.