Rotograpic.co.uk

[Rotograpic.co.uk]

I expect to start organising the 2006 edition after the 2005 edition is in the shops, so perhaps October - the new year. It's hard to say before I even know what it will exactly involve.

Ok, so volunteers so far are:

William

Oli

Master JMD

Penny Master

Anyone else, just make yourself know in here!

I volunteered in the other thread, but no harm in repeating it here

[Read this first if new here.]

Thankyou for your support, both of you.

To answer your Question Oli, on a good year 20,000 of the books are sold. Perhaps it averages 13,000 or something of the main title (I think it's more than the Coin yearbook!) I'm not sure about the others, I would imagine they are fractions of that.

My own sales show that I could sell 350-400 CCGB2004's on predecimal.com in 1 year (using my 7 mth figures). In a year I should personally sell 150-200 Collectors Irish and Collectors Banknotes and perhaps close to 150 Collectors Roman.

So using my results as an average, the other books should come to a good few 1000 altogther anually.

Other places to monitor prices would include any website that offer coins for sale. I suppose the asking price is all very well, but really we are concerned with the actual selling prices. Perhaps we could ask for the record of sales from Colin Cooke, myself of course, and any other online dealers. As well as subscribing to lists etc (at my expense, I'm not expecting you to shell out).

I've been thinking about the pros & cons of the collectors guide vs Spink

Pros

price - as a penny collector I feel most of the £18 I shell out for Spink is wasted because it's irrelevant.

portability - of vital importance when attending fairs

Cons

prices - are somewhat out of date IMHO

breadown - if you collect copper pennies you need both the George III guide and the 1820 onwards. This tends to offset the cons.

If the cons could be addressed then I for one wouldn't bother with Spink. There are other reference works available for identification which don't need frequent updating & what I want from the Collectors Guide is up to date prices.

[Ended up with Free Newspaper.]

The Phoenix is a newpaper format sales list, with the usual Coincraft stuff as well as antiquities and some collectable hammered & milled stuff.

I've just started receiving it again after a gap of about three years - no idea why.

[Read this first if new here.]

I'd also like to offer my most enthusiastic contrafibularities.

Sounds like a great opportunity and somewhat daunting as well.

If I can offer any help with copper/bronze pennies then I'd be glad to chip in.

[Some really ridiculous eBay listings]

I think this is the third time this one's been up for sale:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...3910902302&rd=1

I didn't bid because I've already got one of those 'rare' pennies with Britannia 'upside down'

[who owns the...]

I think I read somewhere that the 1954 is in the British Museum

[How was the Radio show?]

I see Chris' radio appearances have earned a mention in the news section of the latest edition of Coin News

[Do you have an extremely rare coin?]

I'd still swap it for one though

[Do you have an extremely rare coin?]

Well, it's only about fine so I cherish it for its rarity, but not its looks

I'd say my favourite is either my 1839 proof - rare AND beautiful

Or a choice uncirculated cartwheel penny with about 50% lustre - shows Bolton's handiwork at its best

[Do you have an extremely rare coin?]

I've got an obscure rarity

An 1863 penny with the open style 3

According to the Satin reference there are only 6 known

Don't know if mine is a seventh

[Pennies...]

There are dozens of varieties of pennies and no general catalogue will list them all - you need more specialist reference books

OT stands for Ornamental Trident (as opposed to PT for the plain trident). This refers to the shape of the trident head on copper pennies (i.e. Pre-1860)

All PT pennies have the colon after DEF close to DEF (referred to as 'near colon')

All OT pennies have the colon after DEF away from DEF (called 'far colon')

1839-1851 are all OT, from then onwards both types occur (and for 1853 there's a varierty with the colon between near and far)

The 1902 low-tide penny has the sea level noticeably BELOW where Britannia's legs cross - on the high-tide (common) variety the sea-level is at the point where the legs cross.

For the 1897 high-tide variety, the sea level is just below where the legs cross, on the low tide variety it's noticeably lower.

[Pennies...]

A good way to distinguish the 1926 ME is to look at the colon dots between GRA and BRITT

on the normal reverse the colon is midway between 'A' and 'B'

on the modified effigy the colon is clearly closer to 'A' than 'B'

this is helpful when the coin is worn

and Heaton mint pennies of the 1870s and 80s have the H central, below the date.

Another variety one worth looking out for is a 1940 with a single exergual line - one on sale for £95 in aUNC (no lustre) on E-bay recently.

[Your favourite all time British coin...]

I seem to remember a poll on this subject in Coin News a couple of years ago and the Cartwheel Penny was voted favourite

[1853 penny]

This one seems to have reappeared again

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...8&category=3397

When the original was listed there was another listed at about the same time with an almost identical description.

[Coin values]

Since Spink is used by so many dealers to set their prices I have seen the question raised elsewhere as to whether Spink are reflecting increased market prices or causing them.

[How can i tell?]

Unlike Peck/Freeman this one's still in print and available direct from the author

http://www.michael-coins.co.uk/BPbook.htm

You still need catalogues for current prices though.

[How can i tell?]

Yes, Spink have made an interesting attempt - and it's a pretty good one for a general catalogue. But there are so many varieties that they can't possibly cover them all.

The Gouby book has an interesting format, it's split into three horizontal sections, covering reverses, obverses and a bottom section listing combinations, rarity estimates and some very out of date values.

The three section approach means you can select obverse & reverse views independently to get the complete view of any given coin.

There's an even more specialised work by John Jerrams which covers just the years 1860-65 and lists over 60 varieties of currency penny (!)

Peck and Freeman and the most well-known reference works, but Gouby & Jerrams are more up to date and more useful (& have cross-references to Peck/Freeman).

[How can i tell?]

If, like me, you collect bronze pennies, you MUST own the British Bronze Penny by Michael Gouby it has detailed pictures of every reverse and obverse and clues to help you detect the often subtle diferences

It's the best tool for coin identification I've seen

[How can i tell?]

Well that's a challenge

The nose looks pretty straight and the head is pretty adjacent to the B of BRITT (I think) so I think we can narrow it down further to being between 1881 and 1894. They didn't change the reverse very much between these dates.

Impossible to be more precise with it in that condition.

[How can i tell?]

The bit of rock just to the right of the lighthouse suggests its 1875 or later

so we've narrowed it down to 1875-1894

If you could post the obverse we might do a bit more

[Number of pennies made...]

Mintage figures are a complicated issue

Is the number the number made in that year or the number issued with that date? (overdates, for example, mean these are not the same thing).

I think the numbers in the various catalogues are the mint production figures.

They also don't tell you anything about the relative numbers of the variants within each date that were made or are still extant.

[Why...]

Wth regard to the profit issue, does anyone know if profits made from coins require payment of capital gains tax (assuming the profit goes over your personal allowance)?

[What is your best buy?]

A handful of years ago I bought an UNC F16 penny for £70

there's one for sale on E-bay now

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...7&category=3397

for £490

& it's nowhere near as lustrous as mine.

I think that price might be a bit OTT, but even if you go by Spink or the Satin Reference it's worth £400

[How can i tell?]

If there's no Heaton mint mark (H) below the date we can safely eliminate 1882

If it has a beaded border (as opposed to toothed) that would mean 1860

If 'L. C. Wyon' is visible on the obverse (just under or just on the bottom of the bust) and/or on the reverse (under the shield or foot) that would help.

Other things like the shape of the lighthouse or the configuration & position of the rocks around it can be diagnostic.

There are other identifiable features too.

If you can post some pics, I'll have a bash - but no promises

[I've been pruning!]

Back now

The real shame is that all my previous posts now show as unregistered.

Also noticed that when following the link from the activation email it doesn't actually log you in (or ask you to login) - this also caught me out the first time I registered

Thanks for the nice comments.

Good to be back.

Can I suggest that it would be better in future to only prune members who don't login? I tend to post only when I feel I've got something worthwhile to contribute.