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Theories as to the precise reason why die numbers were placed on a very few pennies of 1863 have been aired on many occasions over the years, both by independent authors and on here. The favourite two being a) to test the die, and b) to identify the individual die operator. But in truth no-one knows for certain, and I hasten to add, are still very much in the dark. Testing the die strength/quality does sound the most plausible option to me, as we know from very well highlighted documentation made at the time, that die strength was a major issue. Although one would have thought that by 1863, many of the problems surrounding dies breaking had been resolved. Nevertheless, die cracks were still frequent at this time, as was die slippage. If it was to ID an individual operator, I'm not sure quite how effective that would be (or the point of it), as staff tend to either leave or move to a different area of the business. I'm sure that was just as much the case in 1863 as it is now. So clearly the initial operator assigned to say, die No 4, might have left a few weeks later, then it would be someone else. Although of course, the new man could easily have been assigned a different number. Nevertheless, we only have 4 numbers to go on, and a vanishingly small number of them. So that suggests - and I don't think there would be any dispute over this - it was a very short lived experiment. Started for no clearly defined reason, and ended again, for no reason apparent to us. As a result of the uncertainty I decided to send an e mail to the Royal Mint enquiring as to whether or not they might know of a possible reason. I knew this was a very, very long shot, as I've absolutely no doubt the same question, or variants of it, have been sent to them on many previous occasions. Also, I knew that to get anywhere, the person dealing with my enquiry would have to extensively interrogate old records from 160 odd years ago, potentially reading a lot of pages, and I wasn't sure how much enthusiasm they'd have for that, or whether in fact they'd just rely on previous stock replies to answer my current enquiry. Obviously one's level of success will vary depending on the skill, intelligence and motivation of that person. Nevertheless, I don't recall ever reading what the Royal Mint's view was of this, hence why I pressed ahead with my enquiry. Here is my enquiry and their reply, which I very much appreciate:- So there we have it - not much. Kudos to them for replying though. I honestly thought it might be forgotten with the pandemic having caused so much disruption. So many thanks to Chris Barker. I did wonder whether to put this in the "More Pennies" thread, but decided to create a new thread, as it might be easier to locate on a google or site search if anyone else makes a similar enquiry. It might well help them. I did wonder whether to just add to the "More Pennies" thread, rather than create a new one. But thought

I was working on some ormolu clock mounts for a client when I remembered this pin. It had been on my desk for years and I already had the tools out, so why not. It's an onion head bronze cloak pin, probably from around 900-1100 CE and was dug in the New Forest around 30 years ago. First I soaked it in lemon juice and gave it a light scrub with a worn toothbrush. Then a go over with a nearly threadbare wire brush, the more shagged out the better in these circumstances. Next comes an initial polish with a series of rubber discs and rods, followed by a light spin on the buffing machine. This is the tricky part because I don't want to end up with something that looks brand new. Bronze is a wonderful material because it polishes up as shiny yellow as gold, imagine Bronze Age armies lined up for battle with their armour glinting in the sunlight. I just wanted this piece to show its natural beauty without looking like it had just been made. What do you think?

He makes the Emperor Caligula look like Nelson Mandela.

I think he is most like Nero - I can see him now tweeting while the USA burns , still insisting he's right . The land of the free (as long as you agree with me)

Well is this the answer? London Coins have appeared on Easylive platform: https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogue/619f7266ac134db2d8ebd1b3dadfc099/0af8d24542e81eb9357e7ef448a6646f/london-coins-a169-june-2020/?utm_source=ela&utm_medium=email&utm_content=auction_update&utm_campaign=londoncoins-030620

Just from the top of my head I think all hammered silver coins were removed from legal tender during the reign of William III and early milled not long after 'the great re-coinage' of 1816, 1824 rings a bell. Think all copper was removed from legal tender a few years after the bronze issues of 1860. However I suspect something like Maundy issues were never removed from legal tender so there might lie the answer. Or it could be the simple answer, the 6d, 1/- and 2/6d issues of 1816. The interpretation of legal tender, even going back as early as 1970, was a lot more strictly applied, there were less alternatives to cash and fewer RM rip offs.

You know a lot more than me Eric and dont profess to have any interest in them or had looked at any before they were pointed out to me.You mention the dies ,is there not a possibility that different dies were used or mixed OBV 1 & REV 2 from the standard proof , just a thought and maybe i am completely wrong. Why did they strike a different penny with indicators that everyone is aware of and not produce any of the others differently ? The person has been looking at coins for quite a while and has looked at probably at lot more than most.If he can tell me loads of indicators off the top of his head and just rhyme them all off i believe he has quite a stong opinion or view and they may speak for themselves when you compare one with a standard proof. Also he has looked at hundreds of 1953 proof sets and found two ,it makes me think the two he bought and sold were correct. Otherwise he may well of been selling them everyweek and would not be able to spot one straight away. With regards the other people you mention yes they will all have an opinion although maybe sometimes if you dont know what your looking for its going to be harder to find or confirm. All good fun and them being so rare i suppose will mean we wont find any or maybe there is know such thing 😃

Either way you get wind.....

If madness is defined as a mental disorder where a person is unable to comprehend present circumstances then I think this applies to the majority of politicians and indeed to most of the general population. This is clearly demonstrated by him being elected in the first place.😂

The fact that the US economy was doing well. But the covid 19 pandemic has really found him out for what he is - a madman. Plus his deliberately incendiary remarks following the cold blooded police murder of George Floyd (and let's be frank, that's exactly what it was) has put the cap on it. Quoting the words of a known Miami racist police chief from 1967, "when the looting starts the shooting starts", was not the most positive and harmonious way forward. Quite the reverse in fact.

I've recently come to the conclusion that Trump is not a full deck of cards mentally.

Here you go - 1985 first. Also showing the listings of both.

Also, don't make the mistake of browsing the catalogue on a sunny day like I did last week. The sun heated the spine, melted the glue, and the whole thing fell to bits.....

Does anyone else feel that, coming from a "General Manager", this is a completely unprofessional response made with little or no regard to the question asked? I'm not sure it's any better than no response at all.