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VickySilver reports that he just received the following penny out of the Waterbird Collection...

Another F175

F175

F176

Thank you for the links UPINSMOKE, they will be of great help and they’re exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. much appreciated.

I think the biggest problem with ebay is that it has become unwieldy. 15 years ago there was approximately 2000-3000 listings in the British coins section at any one time, i.e. you could quite literally search through the entire list if you had a few hours to spare. This resulted in multiple bids on most items, but equally, bargains could be had meaning that there was always a chance that sellers could get a good price and conversely buyers a bargain. That is manifestly not the case today other than for a very few sales in the case of sellers, and buyers have so much choice that I genuinely doubt they are able to fully peruse the lists. Just now, searching Victoria penny finds over 10K listings in the UK, or over 14K if the search includes worldwide. This is a huge number to search properly unless you are only looking at specific dates such as 1860, 1861, 1862, 1863, 1877, 1909, 1903 etc. Most people have a life beyond ebay. There is already a large number of outlets for selling the higher grade pieces, i.e. the established auction houses, though another online auction site could easily be accommodated as eBay is hardly over-endowed with quality coins for sale. For me, the biggest issue is that eBay is flooded with things that have little chance of selling, whether due to price, condition or just sheer quantities available. A rhetorical question, but how many 'rare' Peter Rabbit 50ps does the world need. The established houses are not interested in low grade things unless as part of a bulk lot, or if extremely rare, then exceptions will be made. The problem and the solution for me is not to exclude low grade listings, but to charge everyone who lists something for the provision of the facility. It wouldn't have to be prohibitively expensive, but would need to be a number greater than zero in order to make the consignor question the viability of listing. Cut out free listings and suddenly the attraction of posting a flat disc for a million quid becomes unattractive. A dedicated coin auction site would, as you say, potentially have the advantage of experts to police the listings, but there is nothing to stop anyone creating a new site, whether they have the knowledge or not. People collect coins of all grade/prices, so it would be wrong to exclude things that were of inferior grades. The problem is not one of elitism or snobbery, but rather one of time wasting. Sure there are many deluded people offering crap at inflated prices courtesy of the tabloid media, but there is and always has been a genuine market for coins in all grades at the right price and this market must continue to be nurtured for the good of the hobby. A balance needs to be struck whereby you have a manageable list of things available, but also sufficient buyers' eyeballs to make selling worthwhile. This is the perennial problem of startups, but with perseverance is a possibility. Hus tried it 8 or 10 years ago, before eventually folding it, but today, this might be a project worth resurrecting given the number of ebay listings, and the extent to which they p*ss people off. Their buyer good, seller bad policy doesn't exactly endear them to vendors either. It isn't beyond the realms of possibility that you would be pushing on an open door.

I think the answer to that is with halfpennies, where they didn't introduce a modified reverse - I remember collecting in the late 60s, and halfpennies between 1911 and 1924 had reverses that were really badly worn, Poor where the obverse was Fair to Fine.

It was a combination of obverse and reverse. I think the biggest problem at the beginning was the lack of rim on reverse, which caused rapid wear.