[reluctant_numismatist]

I think I'm getting to grips with grading but could do with some clarification on the higher grades please;

UNC is I think fairly clear-cut; as struck, no visible signs of circulation, possibly still lustre, natural toning not necessarily a reason to down-grade.

Going beyond that however I'm unsure as to what the definitions and subtleties of BU and FDC are? BU could I suppose refer to the pricing for such coins on eBay (i.e Bloody Unbelievable) and I'm pretty sure that FDC does not mean First Day Cover (philatelist tendencies showing through there), so what are the distinctions?

[Colin G.]

BU is brilliant uncirculated, which means the coin should be as struck with full lustre.

FDC is Fleur de Coin and describes a proof coin in its perfect state. This should not be used to describe coins other than proofs.

[Hussulo]

Check out this link you might find it useful:

http://www.coinsgb.com/Grading.html

Grading is a bit of an art form and can take years to master. It can vary from coin to coin depending on type and date etc.

A good bit of advice I would give would be to keep an eye out on reputable auction house listings to see how they are grading coins until you start to develop an eye for it. Alternatively look at reputable dealers lists and pictures on line and study the coins to understand how they came about the grade. The highest points wear first but sometimes you have to take into account the softness of a strike.

P.S. I have come a long way but don't profess to have mastered it yet.

[Peckris]

reluctant_numismatist, on 08 March 2010 - 10:48 PM, said:

I think I'm getting to grips with grading but could do with some clarification on the higher grades please;

UNC is I think fairly clear-cut; as struck, no visible signs of circulation, possibly still lustre, natural toning not necessarily a reason to down-grade.

Going beyond that however I'm unsure as to what the definitions and subtleties of BU and FDC are? BU could I suppose refer to the pricing for such coins on eBay (i.e Bloody Unbelievable) and I'm pretty sure that FDC does not mean First Day Cover (philatelist tendencies showing through there), so what are the distinctions?

And above all, learn to appreciate the subtle distinctions that make a high grade coin individually unique and beautiful. For example :
• patina, a gorgeous even colouration on bronze coins, which to my mind is far superior to patchy uneven lustre
• toning, which can be utterly superb on silver coins, rich blues, olive, rainbow, reds

BU is rated in catalogues as the highest of the high when it comes to condition. In terms of being closest to original mint state, that may be literally true, but then look at auction results or dealers' lists, and you will often see a toned coin coming in at a higher price than a BU. As long as the toning is attractive of course ... there are some dogs out there.

[1949threepence]

Peckris, on 10 March 2010 - 12:12 AM, said:

reluctant_numismatist, on 08 March 2010 - 10:48 PM, said:

I think I'm getting to grips with grading but could do with some clarification on the higher grades please;

UNC is I think fairly clear-cut; as struck, no visible signs of circulation, possibly still lustre, natural toning not necessarily a reason to down-grade.

Going beyond that however I'm unsure as to what the definitions and subtleties of BU and FDC are? BU could I suppose refer to the pricing for such coins on eBay (i.e Bloody Unbelievable) and I'm pretty sure that FDC does not mean First Day Cover (philatelist tendencies showing through there), so what are the distinctions?

And above all, learn to appreciate the subtle distinctions that make a high grade coin individually unique and beautiful. For example :
• patina, a gorgeous even colouration on bronze coins, which to my mind is far superior to patchy uneven lustre
• toning, which can be utterly superb on silver coins, rich blues, olive, rainbow, reds

BU is rated in catalogues as the highest of the high when it comes to condition. In terms of being closest to original mint state, that may be literally true, but then look at auction results or dealers' lists, and you will often see a toned coin coming in at a higher price than a BU. As long as the toning is attractive of course ... there are some dogs out there.

Totally agree about toning, which can make a sub unc coin look utterly superb. My 1900 GEF penny looks amazingly attractive, with darker areas merging smoothly over traces of lustre on both sides, to create a very pleasing mellow effect. Yet my technically uncirculated 1895, has a dirty lustre indicative of about 2 to 4 years general circulation, and the fingerprints so common on slightly used bronze coins. Not nearly as attractive.

Compare & contrast:-

 1895.jpg (12.72K)
Number of downloads: 33  19001.jpg (4.89K)
Number of downloads: 40  19002.jpg (6.84K)
Number of downloads: 36

[Peckris]

1949threepence, on 29 March 2010 - 09:24 AM, said:

Totally agree about toning, which can make a sub unc coin look utterly superb. My 1900 GEF penny looks amazingly attractive, with darker areas merging smoothly over traces of lustre on both sides, to create a very pleasing mellow effect. Yet my technically uncirculated 1895, has a dirty lustre indicative of about 2 to 4 years general circulation, and the fingerprints so common on slightly used bronze coins. Not nearly as attractive.

Compare & contrast:-

1895.jpg 19001.jpg 19002.jpg

Yes, despite the small images, that's a good point well made. I have two 1901 Unc pennies - one almost BU with that pale straw toning to the lustre, and a fingerprint on the reverse. The other is also technically Unc, but has an overall rich dark tone with some lingering lustre that is such a deep red colour, it's utterly gorgeous. When I get a chance I will try to post scans.

[1949threepence]

Peckris, on 29 March 2010 - 11:01 PM, said:

1949threepence, on 29 March 2010 - 09:24 AM, said:

Totally agree about toning, which can make a sub unc coin look utterly superb. My 1900 GEF penny looks amazingly attractive, with darker areas merging smoothly over traces of lustre on both sides, to create a very pleasing mellow effect. Yet my technically uncirculated 1895, has a dirty lustre indicative of about 2 to 4 years general circulation, and the fingerprints so common on slightly used bronze coins. Not nearly as attractive.

Compare & contrast:-

1895.jpg 19001.jpg 19002.jpg

Yes, despite the small images, that's a good point well made. I have two 1901 Unc pennies - one almost BU with that pale straw toning to the lustre, and a fingerprint on the reverse. The other is also technically Unc, but has an overall rich dark tone with some lingering lustre that is such a deep red colour, it's utterly gorgeous. When I get a chance I will try to post scans.

I'll look forward to seeing them.

[1949threepence]

Peckris, on 29 March 2010 - 11:01 PM, said:

1949threepence, on 29 March 2010 - 09:24 AM, said:

Totally agree about toning, which can make a sub unc coin look utterly superb. My 1900 GEF penny looks amazingly attractive, with darker areas merging smoothly over traces of lustre on both sides, to create a very pleasing mellow effect. Yet my technically uncirculated 1895, has a dirty lustre indicative of about 2 to 4 years general circulation, and the fingerprints so common on slightly used bronze coins. Not nearly as attractive.

Compare & contrast:-

1895.jpg 19001.jpg 19002.jpg

Yes, despite the small images, that's a good point well made. I have two 1901 Unc pennies - one almost BU with that pale straw toning to the lustre, and a fingerprint on the reverse. The other is also technically Unc, but has an overall rich dark tone with some lingering lustre that is such a deep red colour, it's utterly gorgeous. When I get a chance I will try to post scans.

Here's a slightly larger image of the nicely toned 1900:-

 1900en.jpg (12.19K)
Number of downloads: 21  1900oben.jpg (16.85K)
Number of downloads: 24

[Peckris]

1949threepence, on 03 April 2010 - 09:21 AM, said:

Peckris, on 29 March 2010 - 11:01 PM, said:

1949threepence, on 29 March 2010 - 09:24 AM, said:

Totally agree about toning, which can make a sub unc coin look utterly superb. My 1900 GEF penny looks amazingly attractive, with darker areas merging smoothly over traces of lustre on both sides, to create a very pleasing mellow effect. Yet my technically uncirculated 1895, has a dirty lustre indicative of about 2 to 4 years general circulation, and the fingerprints so common on slightly used bronze coins. Not nearly as attractive.

Compare & contrast:-

1895.jpg 19001.jpg 19002.jpg

Yes, despite the small images, that's a good point well made. I have two 1901 Unc pennies - one almost BU with that pale straw toning to the lustre, and a fingerprint on the reverse. The other is also technically Unc, but has an overall rich dark tone with some lingering lustre that is such a deep red colour, it's utterly gorgeous. When I get a chance I will try to post scans.

Here's a slightly larger image of the nicely toned 1900:-

1900en.jpg 1900oben.jpg

Yes, very nice. My 1901 is similar, but imagine the lustre slightly redder and deeper in colour.

[1949threepence]

Peckris, on 03 April 2010 - 11:24 PM, said:

1949threepence, on 03 April 2010 - 09:21 AM, said:

Peckris, on 29 March 2010 - 11:01 PM, said:

1949threepence, on 29 March 2010 - 09:24 AM, said:

Totally agree about toning, which can make a sub unc coin look utterly superb. My 1900 GEF penny looks amazingly attractive, with darker areas merging smoothly over traces of lustre on both sides, to create a very pleasing mellow effect. Yet my technically uncirculated 1895, has a dirty lustre indicative of about 2 to 4 years general circulation, and the fingerprints so common on slightly used bronze coins. Not nearly as attractive.

Compare & contrast:-

1895.jpg 19001.jpg 19002.jpg

Yes, despite the small images, that's a good point well made. I have two 1901 Unc pennies - one almost BU with that pale straw toning to the lustre, and a fingerprint on the reverse. The other is also technically Unc, but has an overall rich dark tone with some lingering lustre that is such a deep red colour, it's utterly gorgeous. When I get a chance I will try to post scans.

Here's a slightly larger image of the nicely toned 1900:-

1900en.jpg 1900oben.jpg

Yes, very nice. My 1901 is similar, but imagine the lustre slightly redder and deeper in colour.

After saying that, you really do have to post a pic

[Peckris]

1949threepence, on 05 April 2010 - 12:17 AM, said:

After saying that, you really do have to post a pic

Ok, I will. But - sigh - we have the usual problem with scans ABSOLUTELY FAILING to capture the beauteous lustre, at all. And, I've just bought a decent digital camera, but have no idea how to take pictures of coins with it. So this is something of an anti-climax, I'm afraid.

 1901 penny obv smaller.jpg (73.12K)
Number of downloads: 15

[Peckris]

The reverse... but believe me, this just does NOT do the coin justice :

 1901 penny rev smaller.jpg (68.12K)
Number of downloads: 18

[1949threepence]

Peckris, on 05 April 2010 - 11:07 PM, said:

The reverse... but believe me, this just does NOT do the coin justice :

1901 penny rev smaller.jpg

No, but I can still kind of see, that in the hand, it would look great.

Thanks Peck